Originally posted by Henry23But god himself has said nothing in the subject. Christian have. Non-christian have. But god? No... Only the mere mortals who wrote their part of the bible.
I God is the one who saves people and makes them 'Christian' then He should be allowed to define the term.
And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch. (Acts 11:26)
According to the above Scripture the word 'Christian' is a nickname for a disciple of Jesus Christ. I think the best Scripture to define disciple is:
Then He said to them a ...[text shortened]... eclare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
Originally posted by FabianFnasMere mortals wrote the Bible, but they were inspired by God:
But god himself has said nothing in the subject. Christian have. Non-christian have. But god? No... Only the mere mortals who wrote their part of the bible.
2 Pet 1:21 ...for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
2 Tim 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness...
The proof of God's inspiration can be seen in the hundreds of fulfilled prophecies in the Bible. 'mere mortals' could not have accurately predicted specific events in the distant future (sometimes hundreds, even thousands, of years in the future) with any accuracy.
This is verifiable proof for any honest seeker to consider.
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Jesus asks one to follow the will of the Father, i.e. live a life of truth, love, justice, compassion, etc.
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It is a foregone conclusion that a man must receive the Spirit of Christ and live by that indwelling Person to do the Father's will.
Two passages bear this out clearly:
1.) Jesus taught that to believe into Him WAS to do the work of the Father:
"Then they said to Him, What shall we do that we may work the works of God? Jesus answered and said to them, This is the work of God, that you believe into Him whom He has sent." (John 6:28,29)
The word of God for man to do therefore is to believe oneself into the sphere and realm of the living Christ.
Since we can do nothing for God apart from abiding in Christ as our source Christ has told us plainly that without Him we can do nothing. This means you can do a lot but it will all amount to nothing on judgment day:
"I am the vine; you are the branches. He who abides in Me and I in him, he bears mcu fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing." (John 15:5)
As the branches derive their life and fruitbearing ability from being attached to the vine so the "worker" for God must derive her or his God pleasing ability to labor from abiding in Christ as the true vine.
Apart from abiding in Christ and apart from believing into Christ we cannot please God.
2.) Secondly, Jesus says that a man "must be born again".
The abiding in Christ is an "organic" matter which flows out of being born again with Christ. Or this can be thought of as having the living Jesus born within a person.
"Do not marvel that I said to you, You MUST be born anew." (my emphasis) (John 3:77)
Nicodemus was an exceptionally pious man. His name means "victor of the people". So he was of great repute. However Jesus told Him that he MUST be born anew. He must have God implant the living Son within him as a seed of birth.
Birth is the beginning. Growth and maturity lead to abiding in Christ and doing the work of God - a work that cannot be done apart from being born again through Christ and abiding in Christ as the true vine.
For anyone who hears the Gospel you cannot sit on the fence and hope for the best. You either receive Christ or reject Christ.
You cannot trade situations with some other hypothetical and exceptional case. Your case is your case and you have to receive Christ as Lord and Savior or reject Christ.
Christ is a gift. So just repent and receive the gift of Jesus Christ.
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If one follows the will of the Father, is he not also following what Jesus asks of him? Whether he professes to follow Jesus or not? So, is he not a follower of Jesus?
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That is not your situation. You have to decide to reject or receive Jesus.
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If one doesn't follow the will of the Father, is he following what Jesus asks of him? Whether he professes to follow Jesus or not? So, is he a follower of Jesus?
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Again:
"Then they said to Him, What shall we do that we may work the works of God? Jesus answered and said to them, This is the work of God, that you believe into Him whom He has sent." (John 6:28,29)
Originally posted by FabianFnasNot true! It is true that all these books CLAIM divine inspiration, but if one looks at the evidence only the Bibles claims are substanciated.
So was the Koran, the Mormon scripture, and every theistic holy books.
NO theistic holy book except the Bible contains credible fulfilled prophecies. This is only one of many tests for divine inspiration that proves the Bible is the only book that has a divine source.
If you know of fulfilled prophecies on any other book, please present them.
Originally posted by Henry23Nostradamus...?
Not true! It is true that all these books CLAIM divine inspiration, but if one looks at the evidence only the Bibles claims are substanciated.
NO theistic holy book except the Bible contains credible fulfilled prophecies. This is only one of many tests for divine inspiration that proves the Bible is the only book that has a divine source.
If you know of fulfilled prophecies on any other book, please present them.
Originally posted by FabianFnasPlease present these supposedly fulfilled prophecies of Nostradamus so we can judge for ourselves whether they're credible.
Nostradamus...?
I've looked at some of his 'prophecies' and found them to be very vague, to the extent that they would seem to be fulfilled many times over in many different situations. This is in fact not prophecy at all and is in stark contrast to Bible prophecies which are often very specific.
But like I say, 'Show me the evidence!'
Originally posted by Henry23As I don't believe of Nostradamus, nor any prophecies, I cannot give you any evidence. If you like to have them anyway, please, google them.
Please present these supposedly fulfilled prophecies of Nostradamus so we can judge for ourselves whether they're credible.
I've looked at some of his 'prophecies' and found them to be very vague, to the extent that they would seem to be fulfilled many times over in many different situations. This is in fact not prophecy at all and is in stark contrast to ...[text shortened]... Bible prophecies which are often very specific.
But like I say, 'Show me the evidence!'
You will see that the Nostradamus is of the same value as the biblical ones. You will also see that the Nostradamists are using the same arguments as some christians do to valididate the proofs.
Isn't there any prophecies in the quaran? Or the Torah?
Originally posted by FabianFnasOn the one hand you say you can't give me any evidence and on the other you say that 'Nostradamus is of the same value as the biblical ones.' Well I won't believe that without any evidence. At least refer me to a Nostradamus 'prophecy' that is credible.
As I don't believe of Nostradamus, nor any prophecies, I cannot give you any evidence. If you like to have them anyway, please, google them.
You will see that the Nostradamus is of the same value as the biblical ones. You will also see that the Nostradamists are using the same arguments as some christians do to valididate the proofs.
Isn't there any prophecies in the quaran? Or the Torah?
If you don't have any evidence, how do you know 'Nostradamus is of the same value'?
You made the claim that Nostradamus has made fulfilled prophecies, so the burden of proof is on you. If you can't prove your claim then my claim that the Bible is the only book with fulfilled prophecies stands (for a fuller discussion of this and some specific examples of fulfilled prophecy see the thread 'Why is there belief in the divinity of Jesus?'😉.
As far as I know there are no fulfilled prophecies in the Koran - Mohammad came into the world unannounced.
I know Mohammad did make false prophecies (which proves him to be a false prophet), for example, before is first battle against the inhabitants of Medina (did I spell that right?) he prophecied that he would be victorious, but lost the battle and almost lost his own life. He was cut in the mouth and almost died of his wounds.
Originally posted by FabianFnasHere's an example of a Nostradamus 'prophecy' and it's supposed fulfillment:
Nostradamus...?
Throughout history, people have sought to know future events from special individuals or groups said to have the gift of prophecy, such as the Oracles at Delphi in ancient Greece or Nostradamus (1503-1566). Nostradamus, the Latin name of Michel de Nostredame, has been one of the most famous publishers of prophecies. He is best known for his book Les Propheties[1] published in 1555. Since then, many people have been virtually obsessed with his work. His followers claim he predicted numerous world events such as the rise of Adolph Hitler and Nazi Germany. However, his prophecies are questionable, to say the least. They are found in 942 quatrains (four-line poems) which are cryptic, confusing, and quite imaginative. For instance his most famous quatrain about Hitler and Nazi Germany reads as follows:
“Beasts ferocious from hunger will swim across rivers:
The greater part of the region will be against the Hister,
The great one will cause it to be dragged in an iron cage,
When the German child will observe nothing.”
What does this mean? Basically, it’s anyone’s guess. Believers of Nostradamus insist that “the Hister” describes Hitler, and the “Beasts ferocious from hunger” refer to Germany during WWII. This type of creative interpretation is used to link a number of his many quatrains to world events. However, the great majority of his predictions have not happened yet, and those supposed to have happened are at best dimly vague and darkly cryptic. The vast majority of serious scholars reject them as “unintelligible and garbled by the uninitiated.” [2]
Nostradamus demonstrates the ageless intrigue of prophecy. In addition, it also reminds us that a true prophet must present hard, objective, solid, and non-disputed evidence, since accurate prophecies are not possible in the natural world.
This does not compare with biblical prophecy - not even almost!
Originally posted by Henry23Oh, you take one example and build your opinion upon. There are hundreds left.
Here's an example of a Nostradamus 'prophecy' and it's supposed fulfillment:
Throughout history, people have sought to know future events from special individuals or groups said to have the gift of prophecy, such as the Oracles at Delphi in ancient Greece or Nostradamus (1503-1566). Nostradamus, the Latin name of Michel de Nostredame, has been one of t ...[text shortened]... n the natural world.
This does not compare with biblical prophecy - not even almost!
I can think there are lots of prophecies from the bible that didn't happened as they were told.
Nota bene - I don't believe in Nostradamus prophecies, nor do I believe in the bible's prophecies, both of scientific reasons. That are not even interesting. What's interesting is that the biblicists and nostradamists are using the same kind of argumentation of what they believe is true and why the others are wrong.
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Nostradamus' and the Bible's prophesies are applied the same way: Instead of having a prophecy that indicates a specific event, or an event in a specific way, or a specific event in a specific time frame, etc., 'prophecies' are applied to vague and general language and paraded as truth foretold. In matter of fact, a good many things might apply to general statements. Also, the prophecies that do not apply are conveniently ignored.
So it is with Nostradamus, so it is with the Bible.
Originally posted by Henry23Sorry but your claim does not stand either as the Bibles prophesies are not credible either. As far as I know, only Christians with a vested interest find any of them credible, and even then there are many Christians who do not. I have even met priests who would quite readily admit that much of the prophesy in the Bible is not credible.
You made the claim that Nostradamus has made fulfilled prophecies, so the burden of proof is on you. If you can't prove your claim then my claim that the Bible is the only book with fulfilled prophecies stands (for a fuller discussion of this and some specific examples of fulfilled prophecy see the thread 'Why is there belief in the divinity of Jesus?'😉.