Defining a Christian Identity

Hi Duchess,

I can sense the frustration that you must feel with the answers you have received so far. Despite their protestations to the contrary "it doesn't really matter what group you follow, as long as you believe in Christ as your Saviour" I can assure you that each member of RHP's Fundamentalist Club would like to recruit you and your friend into their specific group.

Given the tensions between Protestants and Catholics, I can well imagine that your friend could simply be undecided as to where to hitch her wagon. She would have to feel strongly either way before she can make a choice, and it is not unreasonable to think that she doesn't. At least, not yet.

If she HAS made a choice, but is unwilling to share it, that is another, but also totally understandable, matter.

Your point seems to be that, given all the various packages and doctrines, you cannot understand how somebody accepts a certain "label" without it being a total "package deal". Well, that is entirely possible, since I belong to a group that mixes freely with many others (Roman Catholic included) without accepting all their funny ways.

Aside to RJH and GB: I even accept the YEC'ers in our midst, since they are not nearly so militant and aggressive as you bunch!

Originally posted by CalJust
Hi Duchess,

I can sense the frustration that you must feel with the answers you have received so far. Despite their protestations to the contrary "it doesn't really matter what group you follow, as long as you believe in Christ as your Saviour" I can assure you that each member of RHP's Fundamentalist Club would like to recruit you and your frien ...[text shortened]... ept the YEC'ers in our midst, since they are not nearly so militant and aggressive as you bunch!

"I can assure you that each member of RHP's Fundamentalist Club would like to recruit you and your friend into their specific group." -CJ

.... minus 1.

Originally posted by sonship

You misunderstand. I don't know if my friend has made a secret choice between identifying herself as a Catholic or a Protestant. I know that she has refused to *express* that choice,

Are you asking her "Which church do you belong to ?"
Is that what you are trying to get from her?

I tried to express that she may accept some teac ...[text shortened]... ore divided by their interpretations of Christianity.
[/quote]
I didn't get the humor there.

"I tried to express that she may accept some teachings from either group which she finds reason to believe from the Bible. And she may discard some teachings from either group that she sees no reason to have to believe. "

Some people here who self-ID and Christians spend a lot of time trying to be persuasive on some aspect of their faith. This gives the impression that these aspects are in their opinion, essential to their faith, and others should believe the same way.

These apparently essential beliefs seem to go rather far afield from what these self-same persuaders say is the essential belief of Christianity. Or, put another way, the apparently "essential" beliefs of Christianity seem to be more extensive than one might think.

Originally posted by JS357
"I tried to express that she may accept some teachings from either group which she finds reason to believe from the Bible. And she may discard some teachings from either group that she sees no reason to have to believe. "

Some people here who self-ID and Christians spend a lot of time trying to be persuasive on some aspect of their faith. This gives the imp ...[text shortened]... e apparently "essential" beliefs of Christianity seem to be more extensive than one might think.

That's right, something like what you said.

There is the generality and the specialty of the Christian church life.

Originally posted by JS357
"I tried to express that she may accept some teachings from either group which she finds reason to believe from the Bible. And she may discard some teachings from either group that she sees no reason to have to believe. "

Some people here who self-ID and Christians spend a lot of time trying to be persuasive on some aspect of their faith. This gives the imp ...[text shortened]... e apparently "essential" beliefs of Christianity seem to be more extensive than one might think.

The only "essential" to becoming a Christian is faith in Christ. At the moment of faith alone in Christ alone (nothing added) an individual receives eternal salvation and the privilege of personal relationship with God. At that moment an individual becomes part of the "Body of Christ" and Member of His Royal Family which become His Bride following the Rapture. This is the "group" I hope and frequently pray that many contributors to this forum will consider joining. None other. Period.

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I already have noticed how disingenuous many Christian writers are here.
Some Christian writers here also seem intellectually lazy and inclined to
keep their beliefs vague enough to present a shifting target for criticism. ...

I know there are Christian philosophers who have expressed their beliefs
in much more sophisticated terms than the usual posts in this forum.
If I decided to become a Christian, then I would study some of these
philosophers and then hope to arrive at a set of beliefs that's much more
detailed than the simplistic, 'I just believe in Jesus as my Lord and Saviour.'

While you are on the criticism of being disingenuous remember what you wrote in your OP.

While I'm not a Christian, I did not create this thread to criticize Christians.

Did you start the thread to ask a question for real?
Or did you start the thread to express some negative opinions cloaked as a question ?

You are doing pretty well in speaking your criticisms which you said were not the purpose of your thread.

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Originally posted by Duchess64
If I decided to become a Christian, then I would study some of these
philosophers and then hope to arrive at a set of beliefs that's much more
detailed than the simplistic, 'I just believe in Jesus as my Lord and Saviour.'

You're not alone, Duchess64; over the centuries, many have rejected God's Reconciliation because it's much too simple.
So childishly simple and, to make matters even more disconcerting, it's absolutely free. Fact that God's Mercy/Grace Gift is freely offered is highly insulting to the intelligence of the proud and arrogant who know better than God. "But a natural man [unbeliever] does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them [the Gospel and Bible doctrine], because they are spiritually discerned." (1 Cor. 2:14) Please read C.S. Lewis.

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If you want to define the Christian identity, I recommend you first read the New Testament in the language you best understand before reading the opinions of any philosopher.

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"We arrive at the truth through the honest disagreement among friends." John Locke would, I imagine, also observe that "useful discussions" in an online forum would become unproductive if participants became defensive and/or emotional.

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Your problem is solved.
Thread Closed.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
The only "essential" to becoming a Christian is faith in Christ. At the moment of faith alone in Christ alone (nothing added) an individual receives eternal salvation and the privilege of personal relationship with God. At that moment an individual becomes part of the "Body of Christ" and Member of His Royal Family which become His Bride following the R ...[text shortened]... frequently pray that many contributors to this forum will consider joining. None other. Period.

The rapture. Hmmm. I wonder if one's belief about the rapture is an essential aspect of "faith in Christ." IOW, the simple statement that faith in CHrist is the only essential, is suspect, especially since in another thread you said faith in salvation only through Christ is only the beginning.



The term "Rapture" is used in at least two senses. In the pre-tribulation view, a group of people will be left behind on earth after another group literally leaves "to meet the Lord in the air." This is now the most common use of the term, especially among fundamentalist Christians and in the United States. The other, older use of the term "Rapture" is simply as a synonym for the final resurrection generally, without a belief that a group of people is left behind on earth for an extended Tribulation period after the events of 1 Thessalonians. This distinction is important as some types of Christianity never refer to "the Rapture" in religious education, but might use the older and more general sense of the word "rapture" in referring to what happens during the final resurrection. (From the dread wikipedia.)

Originally posted by JS357
The rapture. Hmmm. I wonder if one's belief about the rapture is an essential aspect of "faith in Christ." IOW, the simple statement that faith in CHrist is the only essential, is suspect, especially since in another thread you said faith in salvation only through Christ is only the beginning.



The term "Rapture" is used in at least two senses. In the pr ...[text shortened]... rapture" in referring to what happens during the final resurrection. (From the dread wikipedia.)

Originally posted by JS357
The rapture. Hmmm. I wonder if one's belief about the rapture is an essential aspect of "faith in Christ."

Of course not, JS. The eschatological reference is presented in context to summarize the consummation of belief in Christ:

"The only "essential" to becoming a Christian is faith in Christ. At the moment of faith alone in Christ alone (nothing added) an individual receives eternal salvation and the privilege of personal relationship with God. At that moment an individual becomes part of the "Body of Christ" and Member of His Royal Family which become His Bride following the Rapture. This is the "group" I hope and frequently pray that many contributors to this forum will consider joining. None other. Period."