Originally posted by divegeester
The observation of the absence or presence of pain and suffering in the world is not an inteligent basis for considering wether or not there is a god. It is completely irrelevant and I'm surprised that it even considered as an argument by people past the age of concent! It's like saying you don't believe in evolution because of the ecruciating pain a f morality and the carnage that brings. It's not pleasant but there is a solution.
The observation of the absence or presence of pain and suffering in the world is not an inteligent basis for considering wether or not there is a god.
It is, however, a good first step in dismissing one of the more popular god-concepts out there - the "3-O" God.
If you athiests want argue against theism then i suggest sticking to the tried and trusted "I can't see him - therefore he don't exist" argument as that is pretty safe.
I'm not so sure it's safe. Theist could point out that I believe that things like atoms, black holes, other galaxies, etc. exist even though I cannot 'see' them. [Depends on what's meant by 'see', really.]
Perhaps even attack god by claiming he is unjust with the flood and such, but that is dangerous ground as it accepts there is a god in the first place and that he/she/it is the god of the bible, so limiting from a big picture point of view.
Again, you have to knock down one god-concept at a time.
Considered the posibility - there is a god - he just hates athiests....especially you? At least that would be on more reasonable ground than - 'there is no god cos I don't like seeing the animals getting killed'.
You are still confusing an argument against a specific type of god with an argument against the existence of god in general.
The world is a tough and brutal place, read genisis with an open mind and think about what actually happened there (not the charlton heston holywood crap, but what really happened).
I think it's insane to take a book like Genesis as literal history. That's the conclusion I got when I 'read with an open mind'.
Sin is a spiritual and genetic disease resulting in spiritual and physical death, the decay of morality and the carnage that brings.
A bizarre theory, to say the least - this idea that everything just starts dying because two humans did something they weren't supposed to do.
If sin is a genetic disease - how did our DNA get changed by the mere act of eating an apple? Was it a natural phenomenon, or supernatural? If supernatural, who was responsible for effecting the change in DNA?