Direct Response to ThinkOfOne
25 Feb '14 23:13ThinkOfOne,
This is what I have so far. In the passage of John 8: 30-36, it doesn't talk about justification at all. There is no mention of being justified. It talks about people who believed{English Translation} in Jesus. This must mean putting faith in Christ as Savior for eternal life. The act of "believing" doesn't mention doing anything as physical actions to keep the many, many Laws of God.
These people must have already been redeemed and already made righteous in standing with God through faith in Christ as Savior. Thus, since they must have already been given eternal life, it is time for them to please God and be testimonies for the cause of Christ.
Continuing in Christ's word just shows they are disciples, but it doesn't show that they are righteous or justified. Just because a person follows the words of another person, means nothing more than doing what they are told to do.
Where does it say anything about being justified or being made righteous? In fact, where does it say anything about being given eternal life? Since these issues are not settled in John 8: 30-36, we need to look elsewhere in the bible for the answers and include more than one passage, as necessary.
If these statements are not what you are wanting from me, then tell me what else you want from me. Otherwise, I don't know what you want from me.
Unless I am wrong, Christ, Himself, told Nicodemus that a person who doesn't believe in Him is "condemned already." John 3: 18 of the King James Version shows this.
I have not yet defined parts of John 3: 35, 36, but I can look then up later. I can also look into Ezekiel 33 later. Below is what I have tried to define for you. Even though you could have looked them up yourself, and you and I should look them up, I don't want you or I to be misunderstanding about how to have eternal life. Having eternal life is crucial for us.
I am not sure what you are expecting me to say. I have tried to show you something or more that you can have a misunderstanding about. I don't know of any of my responses to you that do not address some of your beliefs. I am certainly concerned about your eternal future. What haven't you seen that in my earlier responses to you? Why have you possibly misunderstood all I was trying to use the bible for to address some of your beliefs that you shared?
I am told that the English language translation of the bible verse about "Ask and ye shall receive, seek and ye shall find, knock and it shall be opened unto you" does not tell the exact meaning of certain Greek words. What I am told is that the words Ask, Seek, and Knock mean to keep on doing them, rather than doing them just once and expecting a result.
Voices, Tenses, and Moods are used in the Greek of the bible. Thus, we can't just read the English translation of the bible and trust that we know the exact meanings of every Greek word translated into our English word.
It is important to be exact about meanings so that we are not misled by our lack of knowledge or misled about how something occurs such as being made justified or made righteous before God. It is possible that we might misunderstand something that can cost us eternally. Therefore, I looked into some of the meanings of the Greek in the verses of John 8.
....
....
King James Version
=======================
John 8: 30-36
30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.
1)..These people believed on Jesus.
.....The Greek word for "believed" is Aortist Tense(Not related to past, present, or future)
------------------------
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
1)..Apparently, these people already believed on Jesus, so continuing in His word just shows they are disciples.
....It doesn't say anything about having eternal life from continuing in his word.
....
...."believed" is in the Perfect Tense meaning it doesn't need to be repeated
------------------------
...."continue" means
...................I. to remain, abide
......................A. in reference to place
.........................i. to sojourn, tarry
.........................ii. not to depart
............................a. to continue to be present
............................b. to be held, kept, continually
......................B. in reference to time
.........................i. to continue to be, not to perish, to last, endure
............................a. of persons, to survive, live
......................C. in reference to state or condition
.........................i. to remain as one, not to become another or different
.................II. to wait for, await one
...."continue" is in the Aorist Tense(Not related to past, present, or future) and Subjunctive Mood(A Conditional
....happening)
------------------------
...."are ye" means 2nd person plural(you are) using the "to be" verb
...."my" means I. "me, my, of me"
...."disciples" means "I. a learner, pupil, disciple"
...."indeed" means "I. truly, of a truth, in reality, most certainly."
------------------------
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
1)..Making the "knowers" free happens in the future, not in the present
.....Free from what? It doesn't exactly say what it will make you free from.
...."ye shall know" means: Future Tense(Not Yet Occurred), Indicative Mood(It happens, has happened,
....or will happen)
..................I. to learn to know, come to know, get a knowledge of perceive, feel
.....................A. to become known
.................II. to know, understand, perceive, have knowledge of
.....................A. to understand
.....................B. to know
.................IV. to become acquainted with, to know
------------------------
...."shall make" means:
...............I. to make free
..............II. set at liberty: from the dominion of sin
------------------------
...."free" Future Tense(Not Yet Occurred), Indicative Mood(Statement of Fact)
...............I. to make free
..............II. set at liberty: from the dominion of sin
------------------------
33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
1)..Apparently, they think Christ is talking about being in bondage to a man, not sin.
------------------------
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
...."Whosoever"
...............I. individually
..................A. each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything
..............II. collectively
..................B. some of all types
------------------------
...."committeth" is in the Present Tense(Occuring in Time), Active Voice, and Participle Mood
...............I. to make
..................A. with the names of things made, to produce, construct, form, fashion, etc.
..................B. to be the authors of, the cause
..................C. to make ready, to prepare
..................D. to produce, bear, shoot forth
..................E. to acquire, to provide a thing for one's self
..................F. to make a thing out of something
..................G. to (make i.e.) render one anything
.....................i. to (make i.e.) constitute or appoint one anything, to appoint or ordain one that
.....................ii. to (make i.e.) declare one anything
..................H. to put one forth, to lead him out
..................I. to make one do something
.....................i. cause one to
..................J. to be the authors of a thing (to cause, bring about)
..............II. to do
..................A. to act rightly, do well
.....................i. to carry out, to execute
..................B. to do a thing unto one
.....................i. to do to one
..................C. with designation of time: to pass, spend
..................D. to celebrate, keep
.....................i. to make ready, and so at the same time to institute, the celebration of the passover
..................E. to perform: to a promise
------------------------
...."sin"
...............I. equivalent to G264
..................A. to be without a share in
..................B. to miss the mark
..................C. to err, be mistaken
..................D. to miss or wander from the path of uprightness and honour, to do or go wrong
..................E. to wander from the law of God, violate God's law, sin
.............II. that which is done wrong, sin, an offence, a violation of the divine law in thought or in act
............III. collectively, the complex or aggregate of sins committed either by a single person or by many
------------------------
...."is" Present Tense and Indicative Mood
................I. "he/she/it is" (third person singular of 'to be)
...................Used with 3739 in the following verses: Mar 3:17;
.................. 7:11, 34; 12:42; 15:15; Eph 6:17; Col 1:24;
.................. Hbr 7:2; Rev 21:8, 17. These are listed under number 3603.
------------------------
...."the servant"
...............I. a slave, bondman, man of servile condition
..................A. a slave
..................B. metaph., one who gives himself up to another's will those whose service is used by Christ
......................in extending and advancing his cause among men
..................C. devoted to another to the disregard of one's own interests
..............II. a servant, attendant
------------------------
...."of sin"
...............I. equivalent to G264
..................A. to be without a share in
..................B. to miss the mark
..................C. to err, be mistaken
..................D. to miss or wander from the path of uprightness and honour, to do or go wrong
..................E. to wander from the law of God, violate God's law, sin
................
This is what I have so far. In the passage of John 8: 30-36, it doesn't talk about justification at all. There is no mention of being justified. It talks about people who believed{English Translation} in Jesus. This must mean putting faith in Christ as Savior for eternal life. The act of "believing" doesn't mention doing anything as physical actions to keep the many, many Laws of God.
These people must have already been redeemed and already made righteous in standing with God through faith in Christ as Savior. Thus, since they must have already been given eternal life, it is time for them to please God and be testimonies for the cause of Christ.
Continuing in Christ's word just shows they are disciples, but it doesn't show that they are righteous or justified. Just because a person follows the words of another person, means nothing more than doing what they are told to do.
Where does it say anything about being justified or being made righteous? In fact, where does it say anything about being given eternal life? Since these issues are not settled in John 8: 30-36, we need to look elsewhere in the bible for the answers and include more than one passage, as necessary.
If these statements are not what you are wanting from me, then tell me what else you want from me. Otherwise, I don't know what you want from me.
Unless I am wrong, Christ, Himself, told Nicodemus that a person who doesn't believe in Him is "condemned already." John 3: 18 of the King James Version shows this.
I have not yet defined parts of John 3: 35, 36, but I can look then up later. I can also look into Ezekiel 33 later. Below is what I have tried to define for you. Even though you could have looked them up yourself, and you and I should look them up, I don't want you or I to be misunderstanding about how to have eternal life. Having eternal life is crucial for us.
I am not sure what you are expecting me to say. I have tried to show you something or more that you can have a misunderstanding about. I don't know of any of my responses to you that do not address some of your beliefs. I am certainly concerned about your eternal future. What haven't you seen that in my earlier responses to you? Why have you possibly misunderstood all I was trying to use the bible for to address some of your beliefs that you shared?
I am told that the English language translation of the bible verse about "Ask and ye shall receive, seek and ye shall find, knock and it shall be opened unto you" does not tell the exact meaning of certain Greek words. What I am told is that the words Ask, Seek, and Knock mean to keep on doing them, rather than doing them just once and expecting a result.
Voices, Tenses, and Moods are used in the Greek of the bible. Thus, we can't just read the English translation of the bible and trust that we know the exact meanings of every Greek word translated into our English word.
It is important to be exact about meanings so that we are not misled by our lack of knowledge or misled about how something occurs such as being made justified or made righteous before God. It is possible that we might misunderstand something that can cost us eternally. Therefore, I looked into some of the meanings of the Greek in the verses of John 8.
....
....
King James Version
=======================
John 8: 30-36
30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.
1)..These people believed on Jesus.
.....The Greek word for "believed" is Aortist Tense(Not related to past, present, or future)
------------------------
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
1)..Apparently, these people already believed on Jesus, so continuing in His word just shows they are disciples.
....It doesn't say anything about having eternal life from continuing in his word.
....
...."believed" is in the Perfect Tense meaning it doesn't need to be repeated
------------------------
...."continue" means
...................I. to remain, abide
......................A. in reference to place
.........................i. to sojourn, tarry
.........................ii. not to depart
............................a. to continue to be present
............................b. to be held, kept, continually
......................B. in reference to time
.........................i. to continue to be, not to perish, to last, endure
............................a. of persons, to survive, live
......................C. in reference to state or condition
.........................i. to remain as one, not to become another or different
.................II. to wait for, await one
...."continue" is in the Aorist Tense(Not related to past, present, or future) and Subjunctive Mood(A Conditional
....happening)
------------------------
...."are ye" means 2nd person plural(you are) using the "to be" verb
...."my" means I. "me, my, of me"
...."disciples" means "I. a learner, pupil, disciple"
...."indeed" means "I. truly, of a truth, in reality, most certainly."
------------------------
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
1)..Making the "knowers" free happens in the future, not in the present
.....Free from what? It doesn't exactly say what it will make you free from.
...."ye shall know" means: Future Tense(Not Yet Occurred), Indicative Mood(It happens, has happened,
....or will happen)
..................I. to learn to know, come to know, get a knowledge of perceive, feel
.....................A. to become known
.................II. to know, understand, perceive, have knowledge of
.....................A. to understand
.....................B. to know
.................IV. to become acquainted with, to know
------------------------
...."shall make" means:
...............I. to make free
..............II. set at liberty: from the dominion of sin
------------------------
...."free" Future Tense(Not Yet Occurred), Indicative Mood(Statement of Fact)
...............I. to make free
..............II. set at liberty: from the dominion of sin
------------------------
33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
1)..Apparently, they think Christ is talking about being in bondage to a man, not sin.
------------------------
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
...."Whosoever"
...............I. individually
..................A. each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything
..............II. collectively
..................B. some of all types
------------------------
...."committeth" is in the Present Tense(Occuring in Time), Active Voice, and Participle Mood
...............I. to make
..................A. with the names of things made, to produce, construct, form, fashion, etc.
..................B. to be the authors of, the cause
..................C. to make ready, to prepare
..................D. to produce, bear, shoot forth
..................E. to acquire, to provide a thing for one's self
..................F. to make a thing out of something
..................G. to (make i.e.) render one anything
.....................i. to (make i.e.) constitute or appoint one anything, to appoint or ordain one that
.....................ii. to (make i.e.) declare one anything
..................H. to put one forth, to lead him out
..................I. to make one do something
.....................i. cause one to
..................J. to be the authors of a thing (to cause, bring about)
..............II. to do
..................A. to act rightly, do well
.....................i. to carry out, to execute
..................B. to do a thing unto one
.....................i. to do to one
..................C. with designation of time: to pass, spend
..................D. to celebrate, keep
.....................i. to make ready, and so at the same time to institute, the celebration of the passover
..................E. to perform: to a promise
------------------------
...."sin"
...............I. equivalent to G264
..................A. to be without a share in
..................B. to miss the mark
..................C. to err, be mistaken
..................D. to miss or wander from the path of uprightness and honour, to do or go wrong
..................E. to wander from the law of God, violate God's law, sin
.............II. that which is done wrong, sin, an offence, a violation of the divine law in thought or in act
............III. collectively, the complex or aggregate of sins committed either by a single person or by many
------------------------
...."is" Present Tense and Indicative Mood
................I. "he/she/it is" (third person singular of 'to be)
...................Used with 3739 in the following verses: Mar 3:17;
.................. 7:11, 34; 12:42; 15:15; Eph 6:17; Col 1:24;
.................. Hbr 7:2; Rev 21:8, 17. These are listed under number 3603.
------------------------
...."the servant"
...............I. a slave, bondman, man of servile condition
..................A. a slave
..................B. metaph., one who gives himself up to another's will those whose service is used by Christ
......................in extending and advancing his cause among men
..................C. devoted to another to the disregard of one's own interests
..............II. a servant, attendant
------------------------
...."of sin"
...............I. equivalent to G264
..................A. to be without a share in
..................B. to miss the mark
..................C. to err, be mistaken
..................D. to miss or wander from the path of uprightness and honour, to do or go wrong
..................E. to wander from the law of God, violate God's law, sin
................
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