1. Joined
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    25 Feb '14 23:13
    ThinkOfOne,
    This is what I have so far. In the passage of John 8: 30-36, it doesn't talk about justification at all. There is no mention of being justified. It talks about people who believed{English Translation} in Jesus. This must mean putting faith in Christ as Savior for eternal life. The act of "believing" doesn't mention doing anything as physical actions to keep the many, many Laws of God.

    These people must have already been redeemed and already made righteous in standing with God through faith in Christ as Savior. Thus, since they must have already been given eternal life, it is time for them to please God and be testimonies for the cause of Christ.

    Continuing in Christ's word just shows they are disciples, but it doesn't show that they are righteous or justified. Just because a person follows the words of another person, means nothing more than doing what they are told to do.

    Where does it say anything about being justified or being made righteous? In fact, where does it say anything about being given eternal life? Since these issues are not settled in John 8: 30-36, we need to look elsewhere in the bible for the answers and include more than one passage, as necessary.

    If these statements are not what you are wanting from me, then tell me what else you want from me. Otherwise, I don't know what you want from me.

    Unless I am wrong, Christ, Himself, told Nicodemus that a person who doesn't believe in Him is "condemned already." John 3: 18 of the King James Version shows this.

    I have not yet defined parts of John 3: 35, 36, but I can look then up later. I can also look into Ezekiel 33 later. Below is what I have tried to define for you. Even though you could have looked them up yourself, and you and I should look them up, I don't want you or I to be misunderstanding about how to have eternal life. Having eternal life is crucial for us.

    I am not sure what you are expecting me to say. I have tried to show you something or more that you can have a misunderstanding about. I don't know of any of my responses to you that do not address some of your beliefs. I am certainly concerned about your eternal future. What haven't you seen that in my earlier responses to you? Why have you possibly misunderstood all I was trying to use the bible for to address some of your beliefs that you shared?

    I am told that the English language translation of the bible verse about "Ask and ye shall receive, seek and ye shall find, knock and it shall be opened unto you" does not tell the exact meaning of certain Greek words. What I am told is that the words Ask, Seek, and Knock mean to keep on doing them, rather than doing them just once and expecting a result.

    Voices, Tenses, and Moods are used in the Greek of the bible. Thus, we can't just read the English translation of the bible and trust that we know the exact meanings of every Greek word translated into our English word.

    It is important to be exact about meanings so that we are not misled by our lack of knowledge or misled about how something occurs such as being made justified or made righteous before God. It is possible that we might misunderstand something that can cost us eternally. Therefore, I looked into some of the meanings of the Greek in the verses of John 8.
    ....
    ....
    King James Version
    =======================
    John 8: 30-36

    30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.

    1)..These people believed on Jesus.
    .....The Greek word for "believed" is Aortist Tense(Not related to past, present, or future)
    ------------------------

    31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

    1)..Apparently, these people already believed on Jesus, so continuing in His word just shows they are disciples.
    ....It doesn't say anything about having eternal life from continuing in his word.
    ....
    ...."believed" is in the Perfect Tense meaning it doesn't need to be repeated
    ------------------------
    ...."continue" means
    ...................I. to remain, abide
    ......................A. in reference to place
    .........................i. to sojourn, tarry
    .........................ii. not to depart
    ............................a. to continue to be present
    ............................b. to be held, kept, continually
    ......................B. in reference to time
    .........................i. to continue to be, not to perish, to last, endure
    ............................a. of persons, to survive, live
    ......................C. in reference to state or condition
    .........................i. to remain as one, not to become another or different
    .................II. to wait for, await one
    ...."continue" is in the Aorist Tense(Not related to past, present, or future) and Subjunctive Mood(A Conditional
    ....happening)
    ------------------------
    ...."are ye" means 2nd person plural(you are) using the "to be" verb
    ...."my" means I. "me, my, of me"
    ...."disciples" means "I. a learner, pupil, disciple"
    ...."indeed" means "I. truly, of a truth, in reality, most certainly."
    ------------------------

    32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

    1)..Making the "knowers" free happens in the future, not in the present
    .....Free from what? It doesn't exactly say what it will make you free from.

    ...."ye shall know" means: Future Tense(Not Yet Occurred), Indicative Mood(It happens, has happened,
    ....or will happen)
    ..................I. to learn to know, come to know, get a knowledge of perceive, feel
    .....................A. to become known
    .................II. to know, understand, perceive, have knowledge of
    .....................A. to understand
    .....................B. to know
    .................IV. to become acquainted with, to know
    ------------------------
    ...."shall make" means:
    ...............I. to make free
    ..............II. set at liberty: from the dominion of sin
    ------------------------
    ...."free" Future Tense(Not Yet Occurred), Indicative Mood(Statement of Fact)
    ...............I. to make free
    ..............II. set at liberty: from the dominion of sin
    ------------------------

    33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

    1)..Apparently, they think Christ is talking about being in bondage to a man, not sin.
    ------------------------

    34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

    ...."Whosoever"
    ...............I. individually
    ..................A. each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything
    ..............II. collectively
    ..................B. some of all types
    ------------------------
    ...."committeth" is in the Present Tense(Occuring in Time), Active Voice, and Participle Mood
    ...............I. to make
    ..................A. with the names of things made, to produce, construct, form, fashion, etc.
    ..................B. to be the authors of, the cause
    ..................C. to make ready, to prepare
    ..................D. to produce, bear, shoot forth
    ..................E. to acquire, to provide a thing for one's self
    ..................F. to make a thing out of something
    ..................G. to (make i.e.) render one anything
    .....................i. to (make i.e.) constitute or appoint one anything, to appoint or ordain one that
    .....................ii. to (make i.e.) declare one anything
    ..................H. to put one forth, to lead him out
    ..................I. to make one do something
    .....................i. cause one to
    ..................J. to be the authors of a thing (to cause, bring about)
    ..............II. to do
    ..................A. to act rightly, do well
    .....................i. to carry out, to execute
    ..................B. to do a thing unto one
    .....................i. to do to one
    ..................C. with designation of time: to pass, spend
    ..................D. to celebrate, keep
    .....................i. to make ready, and so at the same time to institute, the celebration of the passover
    ..................E. to perform: to a promise
    ------------------------
    ...."sin"
    ...............I. equivalent to G264
    ..................A. to be without a share in
    ..................B. to miss the mark
    ..................C. to err, be mistaken
    ..................D. to miss or wander from the path of uprightness and honour, to do or go wrong
    ..................E. to wander from the law of God, violate God's law, sin
    .............II. that which is done wrong, sin, an offence, a violation of the divine law in thought or in act
    ............III. collectively, the complex or aggregate of sins committed either by a single person or by many
    ------------------------
    ...."is" Present Tense and Indicative Mood
    ................I. "he/she/it is" (third person singular of 'to be)
    ...................Used with 3739 in the following verses: Mar 3:17;
    .................. 7:11, 34; 12:42; 15:15; Eph 6:17; Col 1:24;
    .................. Hbr 7:2; Rev 21:8, 17. These are listed under number 3603.
    ------------------------
    ...."the servant"
    ...............I. a slave, bondman, man of servile condition
    ..................A. a slave
    ..................B. metaph., one who gives himself up to another's will those whose service is used by Christ
    ......................in extending and advancing his cause among men
    ..................C. devoted to another to the disregard of one's own interests
    ..............II. a servant, attendant
    ------------------------
    ...."of sin"
    ...............I. equivalent to G264
    ..................A. to be without a share in
    ..................B. to miss the mark
    ..................C. to err, be mistaken
    ..................D. to miss or wander from the path of uprightness and honour, to do or go wrong
    ..................E. to wander from the law of God, violate God's law, sin
    ................
  2. Standard memberRajk999
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    25 Feb '14 23:33
    Originally posted by KingOnPoint
    ThinkOfOne,
    This is what I have so far. In the passage of John 8: 30-36, it doesn't talk about justification at all. There is no mention of being justified. It talks about people who believed{English Translation} in Jesus. This must mean putting faith in Christ as Savior for eternal life. The act of "believing" doesn't mention doing anything as phy ...[text shortened]... ng
    ..................E. to wander from the law of God, violate God's law, sin
    ................
    You must be a close relative of Jaywill/Sonship.
  3. Standard memberRajk999
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    25 Feb '14 23:49
    Originally posted by KingOnPoint
    ..I don't want you or I to be misunderstanding about how to have eternal life. Having eternal life is crucial for us.
    Some time ago you asked me a similar question about what Christ said about eternal life and I answered. To this day you refused to address what Christ said :

    Here is the question: Will you tell me even one scripture in context that says a person who performs good works will be given eternal life.

    Here is my answer: Well there are many but, here is one and its from Jesus Christ:

    And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live. (Luke 10:25-28 KJV)

    Let me repeat :

    Love God and your neighbour as yourself = Eternal Life


    So why did you not respond?
  4. Joined
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    26 Feb '14 00:04
    RajK,
    I did answer you , but you ignore John 3: 16-18 and the other passage in I John, if I remember right, that "he that hath the Son hath life, and he that hath not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him."

    Even if you believe in good works, the bible clearly states that the life is in the Son. All that the Father giveth Him that come to Him, He will in no wise cast out.

    John 14: 6 - Christ Himself says, that He is the way, the truth and the life, no man cometh unto the Father but by Him.'

    You want to go to the Father, then go by Jesus Christ. I care for your soul. Will you consider other verses of the bible that say that Christ is the way?

    In Him was life, and the life was the light of men - John 1
  5. Standard memberRajk999
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    26 Feb '14 00:10
    Originally posted by KingOnPoint
    RajK,
    I did answer you , but you ignore John 3: 16-18 and the other passage in I John, if I remember right, that "he that hath the Son hath life, and he that hath not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him."

    Even if you believe in good works, the bible clearly states that the life is in the Son. All that the Father giveth Hi ...[text shortened]... that say that Christ is the way?

    In Him was life, and the life was the light of men - John 1
    You are not addressing what Jesus Christ said. Was He lying to the man who asked what does he need to do to get eternal life?

    Please dont care for my soul. That is not your place.
    Please focus on the topic at hand. Thanks.
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    26 Feb '14 07:59
    Originally posted by KingOnPoint
    ThinkOfOne,
    This is what I have so far. In the passage of John 8: 30-36, it doesn't talk about justification at all. There is no mention of being justified. It talks about people who believed{English Translation} in Jesus. This must mean putting faith in Christ as Savior for eternal life. The act of "believing" doesn't mention doing anything as phy ...[text shortened]... ng
    ..................E. to wander from the law of God, violate God's law, sin
    ................
    Yikes!
  7. Joined
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    26 Feb '14 21:542 edits
    Originally posted by KingOnPoint
    ThinkOfOne,
    This is what I have so far. In the passage of John 8: 30-36, it doesn't talk about justification at all. There is no mention of being justified. It talks about people who believed{English Translation} in Jesus. This must mean putting faith in Christ as Savior for eternal life. The act of "believing" doesn't mention doing anything as phy ...[text shortened]... ng
    ..................E. to wander from the law of God, violate God's law, sin
    ................
    What you've repeatedly avoided directly addressing is the following. In fact, you've been avoiding it for so long that several of the PM's that we've exchanged have dropped off, so I'll repeat it again.

    Once again, please address what I've written here:
    John 8
    31So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.” 33They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never yet been enslaved to anyone; how is it that You say, ‘You will become free’?” 34Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin. 35“The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever. 36“So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed.”

    At the beginning of this line of thought, Jesus establishes his premise:
    "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."
    Note that His "[true] disciples" will be made free. Note that it is "truth" borne of following the words of Jesus that makes one free.

    Jesus establishes what His true disciples will be made free from:
    "...everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin."
    Note that it is committing sin.

    Jesus establishes the consequences of not being set free:
    "The slave does not remain in the house forever;"
    Note that a slave is "everyone who commits sin".

    Jesus summarizes by emphasizing the efficacy of following his word:
    "So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed."
    Note the use of the word "so" as in "therefore". It is an indication of a continuation of a single line of thought.

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    28 Feb '14 02:37
    ThinkOfOne,
    You typed on John 8. . .

    At the beginning of this line of thought, Jesus establishes his premise:
    "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."
    Note that His "[true] disciples" will be made free. Note that it is "truth" borne of following the words of Jesus that makes one free.
    ------------------------------------

    Matthew 10 shows that we can be disciples and even given power by God. It doesn't take a "true" disciple to be used of God. Judas Iscariot was included in being given power. The bible says that he was a disciple - Matthew 10: 1-5. Being a disciple doesn't mean we are going to have eternal life.
    ----------------------

    ThinkOfOne, do you want to be denied of Christ before the Father God?

    Matthew 10: 32-33
    Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

    But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
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    28 Feb '14 02:45
    Originally posted by KingOnPoint
    ThinkOfOne,
    You typed on John 8. . .

    At the beginning of this line of thought, Jesus establishes his premise:
    "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."
    Note that His "[true] disciples" will be made free. Note that it is "truth" borne of following the words of J ...[text shortened]... ut whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
    I was hoping that you would finally address the germane points of my post. Evidently that is not something that you are willing to do.
  10. Joined
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    28 Feb '14 02:50
    ThinkOfOne,
    You typed about John 8

    Jesus establishes what His true disciples will be made free from:
    "...everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin."
    Note that it is committing sin.
    --------------------------------

    There are plenty of ways to sin. And there is more than one way to lie.

    King James Version
    ===================
    I John 1:10
    If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

    I John 2:22
    Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

    I John 5: 10
    He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

    The Revelation 21: 8
    But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

    So one question to ask is. . .if we have lied one time in our life, then are we liars eternally? The Revelation tells "all liars," and not just some liars "shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." It also includes "unbelieving." So again, we can ask, unbelieving of what or whom?
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    28 Feb '14 02:51
    RajK,

    King James Version
    =====================
    I John 2:22
    Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

    I John 5: 10
    He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
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    28 Feb '14 03:05
    ThinkOfOne,
    There is nothing wrong with using the bible to "interpret" the bible. I am speaking directly to what John 8 can mean. There is something or more than one somethings that keeps you from seeing the direct answers to John 8: 31-36 that I have provided. What keeps that from happening?

    Do you refuse to see something that you don't believe in? Please don't do that with God's word because you will not be honored. You can reject a man, woman, boy, or girl. But if you reject Christ, you will be rejected also. You will not be able to demand from God that He accepts you as a son, if you reject God's only begotten Son.

    Don't let Jesus tell you, "I never knew you."

    King James Version
    ===================
    The Revelation 21: 14
    And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

    Are you trying to say that the Apostles of the Lamb don't know what God expects of believers? Acts 15 shows that the Law of God is not required to have eternal life. Please read through that chapter.
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    28 Feb '14 03:081 edit
    Originally posted by KingOnPoint
    ThinkOfOne,
    You typed about John 8

    Jesus establishes what His true disciples will be made free from:
    "...everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin."
    Note that it is committing sin.
    --------------------------------

    There are plenty of ways to sin. And there is more than one way to lie.

    King James Version
    ===================
    I John 1:10 ...[text shortened]... ond death." It also includes "unbelieving." So again, we can ask, unbelieving of what or whom?
    Once again, please address the germane points of what I've written below. The points need to be addressed within the context of the passage as a whole. Thus far you quoted a couple of points only to go off on tangents. What is Jesus saying in THIS passage?

    John 8
    31So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.” 33They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never yet been enslaved to anyone; how is it that You say, ‘You will become free’?” 34Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin. 35“The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever. 36“So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed.”

    At the beginning of this line of thought, Jesus establishes his premise:
    "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."
    Note that His "[true] disciples" will be made free. Note that it is "truth" borne of following the words of Jesus that makes one free.

    Jesus establishes what His true disciples will be made free from:
    "...everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin."
    Note that it is committing sin.

    Jesus establishes the consequences of not being set free:
    "The slave does not remain in the house forever;"
    Note that a slave is "everyone who commits sin".

    Jesus summarizes by emphasizing the efficacy of following his word:
    "So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed."
    Note the use of the word "so" as in "therefore". It is an indication of a continuation of a single line of thought.

  14. Joined
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    28 Feb '14 03:09
    ThinkOfOne,
    I truly don't know what to tell you. I reply and reply. I reply directly to John 8. You will need to tell me exactly what you want me to say. You need to be expressly specific. You need to be clear. How else do I ask you to tell me what it is you want from me?

    I don't understand what you want.
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    28 Feb '14 03:131 edit
    Originally posted by KingOnPoint
    ThinkOfOne,
    There is nothing wrong with using the bible to "interpret" the bible. I am speaking directly to what John 8 can mean. There is something or more than one somethings that keeps you from seeing the direct answers to John 8: 31-36 that I have provided. What keeps that from happening?

    Do you refuse to see something that you don't believe i ...[text shortened]... ows that the Law of God is not required to have eternal life. Please read through that chapter.
    Don't let Jesus tell you, "I never knew you."

    Matthew 7
    21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven...23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

    Pay attention to who Jesus says that to: Those who continue to commit sin, i.e., do not do the will of His Father. In John 8:31-36, Jesus states that His true disciples will be made free from committing sin. That those who are not made free will not "remain in the house forever".
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