Direct Response to ThinkOfOne

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne

ThinkOfOne,

You are very fond of this passage. Let me ask you some particular passages about it.

In verse 36 it says "If therefore the Son sets you free, you shall be free indeed."

1.) Do you count verse 36 as either a lie or mistaken and wrong teaching of Jesus ?

2.) Do you believe that Jesus has EVER set anyone free from being a slave to sin ?

Yes He has ? or
No it has never happened ?

3.) Jesus said "If therefore the Son sets you free, you shall be free indeed."

Was this setting free instantaneous and in one moment ?
Was it in a process, developing and gradual ?


Now let me tell you something of our experiences as Christians:

Over the course of a Christian's life she or he may be not aware that there is an enslavement to a certain sin. But the Christian is aware of enslavement in another area.

For example: A new believer begins to walk in Christ and is made aware that his lust for pornographic magazines is a slavery he has. Through touching the Holy Spirit and confession and feeding on the grace of Christ, he overcomes. He is set free from the slavery to that particular weakness he had in the past.

Further down the road he becomes inwardly aware that he is enslaved to taking things from his office of employment and keeping them at home. When the Holy Spirit shows him this, he confesses his sin and through feeding on the grace of Christ, he henceforth is careful not to take things from the office. He has been freed from that sin.

Further down the road, one night the Holy Spirit convicts him that his tone of voice with his spouse is often unpleasant. He confesses THIS sin to his wife and to the Lord. Grace enters in and he is freed from this former weakness as well.

As he grows spiritually, the Lord Jesus enlightens him to error after error, weakness after weaknesss, sin after sin. God does not blast him with ALL of His divine light in one day. But he grows into freedom as a life long process. And his being set "free indeed" is gradual matter of ever deepening experience of the grace in Christ.


This is what matches the experience of the apostles and of so many Christian down through the ages. This is what the biographies and autobiographies and testimonies of the believers reveal historically.

Being SET FREE is a life long matter of maturing. It is not something anyone who is wise would boast that he has "arrived" at completely.

If your emphasizing John 8:34,35 has no other purpose but to make disciples feel convicted, guilty, still enlsaved, not free, and not good followers of Jesus, that is not at all a useful or anointed handling of the passage. If your only aim there is to minister condemnation, frankly, I think somebody else besides the Holy Spirit has sent you to teach the world John 8:34,35.

If you are including verse 36 - "If therefore the Son sets you free, you shall be free indeed" and you have some experience of growing more and more into this freedom as a life long process on Christian journey, then I welcome your exhortation.

That is what we experience and see in history - growth, maturation, development, gradual life long conformity, transformation by one degree of glory to another (2 Cor. 3:17,18)

Instantaneous one time only liberation of any and all areas of our lives is not what we experience.

Of what possible use could it be to hit everyone over the head with "He who commits sin is a slave of sin" for not other reason but to bring them under inescapable guilt trip ?

Jesus didn't leave the crowd with "You're just slaves of sin." He went on to teach and to be the way to grow into freedom.

Suzianne,
There may be a time that I will not see that I can help ThinkOfOne or RajK, but God has more understanding of how to deal with them. Hopefully, God will bring them to the truth.

I wonder if RajK even cares about his eternal future. I wonder if he is even serious about his eternity. If not, maybe one day he will care enough to repent before it is too late. Too late may mean his taking for granted his "time to be saved" and not just his death. If RajK thinks that this is all funny to him or to be critical to others that reach out to him, his refusal may be on his head and not those who have given him God's word about salvation in Christ.

As for ThinkOfOne, he needs to use the Greek language that part of the bible was written in to understand what the English language doesn't show in detail. Also, ThinkOfOne needs to accept all that Christ said, and not just John 8: 31-36. That complacency may be his "undoing." That refusal to believe in all Christ said may cost him his soul. Again, if he persists in unbelief, it will not the faults of those who told him the gospel of Jesus and His providing salvation. But his unbelief will be on his head too.

One big problem with humans is that we can take things for granted. We can postpone things that we don't want to deal with today. We can keep "playing around" with our wants and desires until it is too late to be saved. Or we might be incapacitated somehow so that we will not be saved. Then whose faults with it be then that RajK and ThinkOfOne refused to be saved in Christ?

Thanks to God for all the truth of God that any people like Sonship, Suzianne, Grampy Bobby, and all others not named here that tell ThinkOfOne, RajK, Fabian, and others on RHP and not on RHP concerning Jesus the Christ and how to be saved in Him.

Originally posted by KingOnPoint
Thanks to God for all the truth of God that any people like Sonship, Suzianne, Grampy Bobby, and all others not named here that tell ThinkOfOne, RajK, Fabian, and others on RHP and not on RHP concerning Jesus the Christ and how to be saved in Him.

Clearly you have more than a few loose screws.
Go read your Bible.

Originally posted by KingOnPoint
Suzianne,
There may be a time that I will not see that I can help ThinkOfOne or RajK, but God has more understanding of how to deal with them. Hopefully, God will bring them to the truth.

How come it is always the other people who need to be brought to the truth?

This is not to pick on you; you're hardly the only one here who does it. Just a thought your post stirred up.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
How come it is always the other people who need to be brought to the truth?

This is not to pick on you; you're hardly the only one here who does it. Just a thought your post stirred up.

It's kind of funny, when you think about it: everyone has a notion of truth as an obtainable, know-able concept.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
It's kind of funny, when you think about it: everyone has a notion of truth as an obtainable, know-able concept.

I wouldn't go that far.

Originally posted by KingOnPoint
ThinkOfOne,
John 8 31-36 includes talking about sin. So asking you if you think that you don't sin, is relevant to the topic. Secondly, what keeps from putting faith in Christ as Savior? Please read the 2 verses below.

King James Version
==================
Mark 16: 15, 16
And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to ...[text shortened]...

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

John 8 31-36 includes talking about sin. So asking you if you think that you don't sin, is relevant to the topic.

Do you really not understand the following?
"Whether or not any given individual sins does not affect what Jesus taught."

The discussion is about what Jesus TAUGHT in John 8:31-36. Please address it in an open, honest and forthright manner instead of continuing to dance around it.

Originally posted by sonship
ThinkOfOne,

You are very fond of this passage. Let me ask you some particular passages about it.

In verse 36 it says [b]"If therefore the Son sets you free, you shall be free indeed."

1.) Do you count verse 36 as either a lie or mistaken and wrong teaching of Jesus ?

2.) Do you believe that Jesus has EVER set anyone free fro ...[text shortened]... wd with "You're just slaves of sin." He went on to teach and to be the way to grow into freedom.[/b]

In verse 36 it says "If therefore the Son sets you free, you shall be free indeed."

1.) Do you count verse 36 as either a lie or mistaken and wrong teaching of Jesus ?

2.) Do you believe that Jesus has EVER set anyone free from being a slave to sin ?

Yes He has ? or
No it has never happened ?

3.) Jesus said "If therefore the Son sets you free, you shall be free indeed."

Was this setting free instantaneous and in one moment ?
Was it in a process, developing and gradual ?

As I've repeatedly told you:
"In John 8:31-36, Jesus states that His true disciples will be made free from committing sin. That those who are not made free will not 'remain in the house forever'".

This is what Jesus taught. Do you believe that what Jesus taught in John 8:31-36 is true?

Jesus didn't leave the crowd with "You're just slaves of sin."

That's what I keep trying to tell YOU:
"In John 8:31-36, Jesus states that His true disciples will be made free from committing sin. That those who are not made free will not 'remain in the house forever'".

John 8
31So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”

Clearly Jesus is telling them that His true disciples are those that have been made free from committing sin. Don't allow the dogma you've been taught continue to blind you from believing Jesus.

Originally posted by KingOnPoint
Suzianne,
There may be a time that I will not see that I can help ThinkOfOne or RajK, but God has more understanding of how to deal with them. Hopefully, God will bring them to the truth.

I wonder if RajK even cares about his eternal future. I wonder if he is even serious about his eternity. If not, maybe one day he will care enough to repent befo ...[text shortened]... aved. Then whose faults with it be then that RajK and ThinkOfOne refused to be saved in Christ?

As for ThinkOfOne, he needs to use the Greek language that part of the bible was written in to understand what the English language doesn't show in detail.

Let's look again at the following verse:
John 8
Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.

Let's look again at what you had to say about it:
"One thing that I have been taught is that 'committing sin' as meant in part of the bible doesn't mean 'never sinning,' but it means not sinning 'as a way of life.'"

Let's look again at what YOU posted about what the Greek says:
...."committeth" is in the Present Tense(Occuring in Time), Active Voice, and Participle Mood
...............I. to make
..............II. to do

Let's look again at what I posted about this:
"In short, Jesus was saying that EVERYONE who 'makes' or 'does' sin is a slave to sin - not just those who sin 'as a way of life'. And that His true disciples will be made free from 'making' or 'doing' sin."

Clearly YOU'RE the one who is ignoring what the Greek language says. Why the dishonesty?

Originally posted by KingOnPoint
Suzianne,
There may be a time that I will not see that I can help ThinkOfOne or RajK, but God has more understanding of how to deal with them. Hopefully, God will bring them to the truth.

I wonder if RajK even cares about his eternal future. I wonder if he is even serious about his eternity. If not, maybe one day he will care enough to repent befo ...[text shortened]... aved. Then whose faults with it be then that RajK and ThinkOfOne refused to be saved in Christ?

Also, ThinkOfOne needs to accept all that Christ said, and not just John 8: 31-36.

Your characterization that the only thing that I accept about what Jesus said is John 8:31-36 is misleading. Again, why the dishonesty?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne

As I've repeatedly told you:
"In John 8:31-36, Jesus states that His true disciples will be made free from committing sin. That those who are not made free will not 'remain in the house forever'".

Have you ever read that He is able set His saved before Himself without blemish ?

" But to Him who is able to guard you from stumbling and to set you before His glory without blemish in exultation." (Jude 24)

Have you ever read that He has BEGUN a good work in His saved AND WILL COMPLETE IT ?

"Being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Christ Jesus." (Phil. 1:6)

Have you ever read that as an interceding High Priest He is able to save His followers "to the uttermost." ?

"Hence also He is able to save to the uttermost those who come forward to God through Him, since He lives always to intercede for them." (Hebrews 7:25)

Have you read that He prayed that His believers would be perfected in salvation and into one ?

" I in them, and You in Me, that they may be perfected into one. that the world may know that You have sent Me and have loved them even as You have loved Me." (John 17:23)

I don't think any Christian teacher has claimed that the process of "perfecting" has been completed yet.

I have never heard a more utterly negative presentation of the New Testament than comes from you ThinkofOne. Where is the "GOOD NEWS" in ANYTHING that you write. Where IS the Gospel in your teaching ?

Maybe this is a doctrine of demons that you preach.

Oh, the words seem scriptural enough. Just like the Catholic worship of Mary was based on "Blessed are you among women" and everyone will call her blessed.

The words seem scriptural enough. Just like Peter was Catholicism's first Pope because Jesus said "And upon this rock [Peter presumably] I will build My church".

Yes I admit that there seems to be some correlation between biblical words and the dogma you present. But something is wrong.

I wonder if you have the Christ of Hebrews who is "always LIVING to intercede". I doubt it. I think you conceal your "Gospel" of a dead and gone Jesus. Is this your "Son of God" ?

This is what Jesus taught. Do you believe that what Jesus taught in John 8:31-36 is true?

Sure I do.

But if I ask YOU is Jesus resurrected, you'll keep that belief tucked away hidden close to the vest. This is the behavior of a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Watch.

ThinkOfOne, DO YOU believe that Jesus the Son of God is risen from the dead ?

Show me up and give me a plain answer this time.

sonship:
Jesus didn't leave the crowd with "You're just slaves of sin."

ToO:
That's what I keep trying to tell YOU:
"In John 8:31-36, Jesus states that His true disciples will be made free from committing sin. That those who are not made free will not 'remain in the house forever'".

So we are in the process of becoming true disciples.

Didn't you read about Peter denying the Lord three times ?
Didn't you read about even further blunders Peter so that he had to be rebuked publically by the younger apostle Paul ?

It Peter the leading disciple made it to be built into the house WE ALL CAN.

In fact Peter says we are ALL who believe the true Gospel are living stones being built up into a spiritual house.

"Coming to Him, a living stone, rejected by men but with God chosen and precious,

You yourselves also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house ..." (1 Peter 2:4,5a)

I KNOW that the bungling Peter made it to remain in the house of God forever because John saw him in the New Jerusalem. John Peter's name written on one of the foundations of the eternal living temple and house of God.

"And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb." (Revelation 21:14)

Judas Iscariot's name is not there. He was replaced. But the other eleven original disciples' names are there. If they made it to be built up into the eternal dwelling place of God, so eventually will every believer redeemed by the blood of the Lamb.

Have you never read "Who is he who condemns" Christ intercedes for us .."

"Who shall bring a charge against God's chosen ones? It is God who justifies. Who is he who condemns? It is Christ Jesus who died and ,rather, who was raised, who is also at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us.

Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? ..." (Romans 8:33,34) [/b]

Your exceedingly dubious "gospel" is no gospel at all. It is a ministry of disbelief in God's grace to justify and His inability to reconcile within and without His elect.

Now I want to tell you somewhat where I agree with some of what you say. The Apostle John does say that the organic "seed" of divine life implanted in the believer makes it impossible for them to sin.

"Everyone who has been begotten of God does not practice sin, because His seed abides in him, and he cannot sin, because he has been begotten of God." (1 John 3:9)

I believe that passage too. The freeing Savior has become the living divine SEED implanted into the innermost being of the Christian - everyone who is born again.

But the same letter says we have an Advocate with the Father as a continual defense attorney. The same letter teaches us how to confess out sins that we may be cleansed and freed from its power. And the same epistle teaches us to ABIDE in that realm. The problem is not with the non- sinning SEED. The problem is in our logging more and more TIME in the realm and under the influence of that divine nature.

That we are not use to and must learn, learn to "Abide in Him".

John 8
31So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”

That's right. And since the Holy Spirit will guide us into all the truth - this learning the truth is a process of maturation, growth, development.

ThinkOfOne,
Christ spoke to Nicodemus in John 3 about needing to be born again. Christ, another time, taught to repent and be baptized. Christ said more than one thing during his life. Christ told another man to follow Him. It is Christ that is the center for salvation, not doing good works.

Will you put faith in Christ Jesus for your salvation?
Read John 3: 10-18, and if you will, even read John 3: 1-18

Originally posted by divegeester
Yikes!

He must have taken a month to write all that.

And then just to be shot down and trampled under foot. :'(

And to think, I didn't read any of this thread to know

SwissGambit
You typed
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How come it is always the other people who need to be brought to the truth?

This is not to pick on you; you're hardly the only one here who does it. Just a thought your post stirred up.
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Yes, I need to be brought to the truth too. I don't know things that I wish I did know. I am need of God's help myself. I am desperate for God to help me.