1. Standard membersonship
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    06 Feb '17 18:511 edit
    I have a question for you.

    First a little backround. Now you really seem not to want to explain how the Father and the Son are the Divine "We" in John 14. And you don't seem to want to explain the plural pronoun "Us" in John 17.

    Have you considered also that Jesus strongly indicated that He and the Father were "two" as well as one?

    First we see that He and His Father are one:


    " I and the Father are one." (John 10:40)



    But consider John 8:17,18


    "And in your law also it has been written that the testimony of two men is true:

    I am One who testifies concerning Myself, and the Father who sent Me testifies concerning Me." (John 8:17,18)


    Based on this passage am I justified to believe that the Father and the Son are "one" and the Father and the Son are also "two" ?
  2. Joined
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    06 Feb '17 18:52
    Originally posted by sonship
    Divegeester, since this thread has your name I have a question for you.

    First a little backround. Now you really seem not to want to explain how the Father and the Son are the Divine "We" in John 14. And you don't seem to want to explain the plural pronoun "Us" in John 17.

    Have you considered also that Jesus strongly indicated that He and the Father ...[text shortened]... that the Father and the Son are [b]"one"
    and the Father and the Son are also "two" ?[/b]
    No.
  3. Standard membersonship
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    06 Feb '17 18:592 edits
    Originally posted by divegeester
    No.
    Why?

    if it was good enough for Jesus Christ to relate "two" to Him and His Father, why is it a not for me?

    Jesus spoke of "We" and of "Us" and of "two" in relation to He and the Father.

    Is there some strong dogma that dictates these passages should be erased from my Bible? Why "No" above ?
  4. Standard memberRajk999
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    06 Feb '17 19:03
    Originally posted by sonship
    Divegeester, since this thread has your name I have a question for you.

    First a little backround. Now you really seem not to want to explain how the Father and the Son are the Divine "We" in John 14. And you don't seem to want to explain the plural pronoun "Us" in John 17.

    Have you considered also that Jesus strongly indicated that He and the Father ...[text shortened]... that the Father and the Son are [b]"one"
    and the Father and the Son are also "two" ?[/b]
    Husband and wife are one and also two.
    Christ and disciples are one and also many
    God and Christ are one and also two.

    All still separate and distinct entities

    ONE does not mean one and the same. It means oneness.
  5. Standard membersonship
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    06 Feb '17 19:06
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Husband and wife are one and also two.
    Christ and disciples are one and also many
    God and Christ are one and also two.

    All still separate and distinct entities

    ONE does not mean one and the same. It means oneness.
    I'll come back to your post after I see what Divegeester has to explain his "No".
    I want his thoughts on this first.
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    06 Feb '17 19:132 edits
    Originally posted by sonship
    I'll come back to your post after I see what Divegeester has to explain his "No".
    I want his thoughts on this first.
    I have explained this over and over and over again to you.

    God is one entity revealed in many manifestations and three, if you like, offices.

    Manifestations:
    Burning bush
    Pillar of fire
    Dove
    Melchesideck
    Tongues of fire
    Etc

    Offices
    Father, son, spirit.
    Same person reveallng himself in three official ways.
    Only two eligible for worship, Father and son.
    Only two offices post new creation Father and spirit
    The (office of) son shall hand over all things to the father. No need for that office. There is no such thing as "the eternal son" anywhere in the bible.

    There are the one single person, one god, revealing himself through the millennia. The son is the "veil of flesh", he is "the right arm laid bare" he is god himself wrapped in flesh and descended lower than the angels.

    Hear oh Israel the Lord your God is ONE.
  7. Standard memberRajk999
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    06 Feb '17 19:32
    Originally posted by divegeester
    I have explained this over and over and over again to you.

    God is one entity revealed in many manifestations and three, if you like, offices.

    Manifestations:
    Burning bush
    Pillar of fire
    Dove
    Melchesideck
    Tongues of fire
    Etc

    Offices
    Father, son, spirit.
    Same person reveallng himself in three official ways.
    Only two eligible for wors ...[text shortened]... apped in flesh and descended lower than the angels.

    Hear oh Israel the Lord your God is ONE.
    All the manifestations or offices are not and can not all be called God as well. The burning bush for example is not God. Same way Christ is not God but came with the power and authority of God. God is manifested in nature, but God retains His separatenes and distinctness
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    06 Feb '17 19:371 edit
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    All the manifestations or offices are not and can not all be called God as well. The burning bush for example is not God. Same way Christ is not God but came with the power and authority of God. God is manifested in nature, but God retains His separatenes and distinctness
    Agreed. (Except about Jesus not being god)
    I didn't say they were, by the way.
  9. Standard memberRajk999
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    06 Feb '17 19:50
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Agreed. (Except about Jesus not being god)
    I didn't say they were, by the way.
    OK .. I was saying that for the Trinity believers.
  10. Account suspended
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    06 Feb '17 20:01
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Husband and wife are one and also two.
    Christ and disciples are one and also many
    God and Christ are one and also two.

    All still separate and distinct entities

    ONE does not mean one and the same. It means oneness.
    excellent post 😀
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    06 Feb '17 20:021 edit
    Originally posted by sonship
    I have a question for you.

    First a little backround. Now you really seem not to want to explain how the Father and the Son are the Divine "We" in John 14. And you don't seem to want to explain the plural pronoun "Us" in John 17.

    Have you considered also that Jesus strongly indicated that He and the Father were "two" as well as one?

    First we see t ...[text shortened]... that the Father and the Son are [b]"one"
    and the Father and the Son are also "two" ?[/b]
    divegeesters a one hit wonder.
  12. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
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    06 Feb '17 20:03
    I was drawn in to this thread under false promises of Dive's greatest hits.

    Not a Simon and Garfunkel in sight.

    😠
  13. Account suspended
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    06 Feb '17 20:07
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    I was drawn in to this thread under false promises of Dive's greatest hits.

    Not a Simon and Garfunkel in sight.

    😠
    koo koo ka choo 😀
  14. SubscriberSuzianne
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    06 Feb '17 20:13
    Originally posted by divegeester
    I have explained this over and over and over again to you.

    God is one entity revealed in many manifestations and three, if you like, offices.

    Manifestations:
    Burning bush
    Pillar of fire
    Dove
    Melchesideck
    Tongues of fire
    Etc

    Offices
    Father, son, spirit.
    Same person reveallng himself in three official ways.
    Only two eligible for wors ...[text shortened]... apped in flesh and descended lower than the angels.

    Hear oh Israel the Lord your God is ONE.
    Offices -- Persons

    I say to-may-to, you say to-mah-to.
    Go on, now, drop the other shoe.
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    06 Feb '17 20:19
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    divegeesters a one hit wonder.
    Fortunately for me, that's all it would take with you 😛
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