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@kingdavid403 saidEither way you admit that scripture in the bible is the infallible word of God.
You stopped right were I said next: "Either way, I believe it to be scriptures."
Now, I enjoy having conversations with you; as iron sharpens iron. Also, I know I'm not perfect by any means; and, I need all of you as brothers and sisters in Christ. However, if you keep attempting to put words in my mouth and changing the context and words of what I write, the conversations will end; with you, Old Chap.
And if you aren’t trying to move the intellectual goalposts, then why give a preamble about such and such “not appearing in the oldest manuscripts”?
Make your mind up. And if you don’t want to discuss it with me then don’t. But don’t threaten me with a sulk!
10 Jul 20
1 edit
@divegeester saidThe Word of God. God breathed, God inspired, etc. I usually don't threaten; and, I'm not in this case.
Either way you admit that scripture in the bible is the infallible word of God.
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@kingdavid403 saidWell then, I refer you back the post I made on the previous page before you got upset with me.
The Word of God. God breathed, God inspired, etc.
@divegeester saidWell, when you sit here and accuse me of first claiming all scriptures to be true, and then claim that I'm now saying they are not, when you end quoting me right before I said: "either way, I believe these to be authentic scriptures" then yes, it upset me. I'll look for the post you're referring to; a little help or reference would be nice, as there are many.
Well then, I refer you back the post I made on the previous page before you got upset with me.
@divegeester saidI’ve just given you one where Jesus himself states exactly and concisely that belief in him IS necessary.
I don’t really know what you’re on about. What does this even mean for example? What are you on about.
”Jesus was talking to the Jews whom He was walking and talking with.”
You said there were a absolutely NO scriptures saying that believing in Jesus was necessary for salvation...and I’ve just given you one where Jesus himself states exactly and concisely that belief in him IS necessary.
You're giving a scripture where Jesus is personally and physically preaching and talking with the Jews of that day. Had been for over three years now. So yes, you're correct. These Jews needed to believe in Him or die in their sins: and, most of them soon murdered Jesus. My bad. Does not mean it apply s to everyone else after that. And, this is a much different case than those that have never known Jesus. There is no scripture or scriptures that require new believers in God, that require them accepting Jesus as Lord and savior for salvation. Don't get me wrong, it's great if one does and salvation is assured.
If one comes to God believing that He exists, and they diligently seek Him out with their heart, they are saved at that moment and nothing else is required at that time. Jesus paid. Muslims, Hindu, Buddhist's etc.
Do you think Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc are Saved? If they are diligently seeking God? I'd like an answer to this one as you've past it a couple times already.
@KingDavid403
[Romans 9:15 NKJV] 15 For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion."
[Rom 9:16, 18 NKJV] 16 So then [it is] not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. ... 18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.
[Exo 33:19 NKJV] 19 Then He said, "I will make all My goodness pass before you, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before you. I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion."
[Exo 34:6 NKJV] 6 And the LORD passed before him and proclaimed, "The LORD, the LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abounding in goodness and truth,
[Mic 7:18 NKJV] 18 Who [is] a God like You, Pardoning iniquity And passing over the transgression of the remnant of His heritage? He does not retain His anger forever, Because He delights [in] mercy.
@bigdoggproblem saidIf God and Jesus are the exact same being, it is impossible to believe in one without also believing in the other.
I have to agree with dj and dive that OP's position is logically contradictory.
If God and Jesus are the exact same being, it is impossible to believe in one without also believing in the other.
My point exactly. Thank you. 🙂 And, we're talking about a requirement for salvation. Not about our belief s other than that. Thanks for the response.
Edit: Whom are you claiming are the ones who do not believe in Jesus? at all? Any religious sects you can think of etc? Even most Atheists believe He was a great man who lived and had great wisdom etc.
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10 Jul 20
@kingdavid403 saidYou need to make your mind up Sir.
Well, when you sit here and accuse me of first claiming all scriptures to be true, and then claim that I'm now saying they are not, when you end quoting me right before I said: "either way, I believe these to be authentic scriptures" then yes, it upset me. I'll look for the post you're referring to; a little help or reference would be nice, as there are many.
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@bigdoggproblem saidIndeed.
I have to agree with dj and dive that OP's position is logically contradictory.
If God and Jesus are the exact same being, it is impossible to believe in one without also believing in the other.
@divegeester saidI see you have conceded because you have NOTHING. LOL...
Thank you.
Belief in Jesus (at first), or accepting Jesus as ones Savior, is NOT a requirement for salvation. 🙂
@divegeester saidOh, I've made up my mind about your complete lies and false witness. Trust me.
You need to make your mind up Sir.
"You will know them by their fruits."
@divegeester saidI feel that I must go along with you here, as well as your John 8 quote.
I thought so...so therefore, according to your previous posts, Jesus is essential for salvation. Seeing as you acknowledged his deity and also said that salvation was found through seeking and finding god. As Jesus is your god you have proved your own thread premise to be incorrect.
Yes, I believe that belief in Jesus is necessary for salvation. How can it not be?
10 Jul 20
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@suzianne saidThanks for your opinion and adding to the discussion.
I feel that I must go along with you here, as well as your John 8 quote.
Yes, I believe that belief in Jesus is necessary for salvation. How can it not be?
In my opinion,
How can it not be?
Because they don't know Jesus; yet anyway. However, they know there's a God, He's Good and Holy, and they diligently are seeking Him. Do you not think Jesus has them saved at this point? This is my point; period. Nothing more, nothing less.
Since they're truly seeking after God, even tho they don't know Jesus, If they died right then, do you think Jesus saved them? Anyone?
Edit: Don't forget those in the Old Testament.