1. Subscriberinvigorate
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    14 Oct '05 21:48
    Has there been a scientific study?
  2. Standard memberthesonofsaul
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    14 Oct '05 22:22
    Originally posted by invigorate
    Has there been a scientific study?
    Really depends on what you think it is supposed to do.
  3. London
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    14 Oct '05 22:251 edit
    Originally posted by invigorate
    Has there been a scientific study?
    You mean in terms of "Oh God, please cure my uncle of heart disease" and the uncle gets cured?*

    Apparently, the answer is yes - prayer does work:

    http://www.dukemednews.org/news/article.php?id=5056

    ---
    * Or were you talking about soteriological value?
  4. Standard memberDavid C
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    14 Oct '05 22:33
    Originally posted by thesonofsaul
    Really depends on what you think it is supposed to do.
    Or how you define 'prayer'.
  5. Subscriberinvigorate
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    14 Oct '05 23:46
    Originally posted by David C
    Or how you define 'prayer'.
    Maybe:

    Why do people pray?

    would be a better question
  6. Standard memberchancremechanic
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    15 Oct '05 07:32
    Originally posted by invigorate
    Has there been a scientific study?
    It has worked for me; therefore I need no scientific study to tell me something that I already know. Does God answer all prayers? Yes, but the answer is sometimes "no", just as a father tells his son "no, you cannot drive a car as you are only 10 years old"..."ask in another 6 years when you are old enough"..."maybe I'll say yes then".....patience is a virtue.
  7. Standard memberchancremechanic
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    15 Oct '05 07:35
    Originally posted by invigorate
    Maybe:

    Why do people pray?

    would be a better question
    Because the Bible says: "Ask, and ye shall receive"....does it mean that you will receive "it" at that precise moment?...not necessarily...maybe in a day or 20 years...whichever He decides is best for you or me....patience is a virtue
  8. Standard membershavixmir
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    15 Oct '05 10:00
    Originally posted by invigorate
    Has there been a scientific study?
    If it does work, it's cheating.

    The mods will get you!
  9. Standard memberthesonofsaul
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    15 Oct '05 12:45
    Originally posted by chancremechanic
    It has worked for me; therefore I need no scientific study to tell me something that I already know. Does God answer all prayers? Yes, but the answer is sometimes "no", just as a father tells his son "no, you cannot drive a car as you are only 10 years old"..."ask in another 6 years when you are old enough"..."maybe I'll say yes then".....patience is a virtue.
    So for you prayer is simply a way of asking God for stuff? Seems rather materialistic. But then you are a "Proud American," so maybe that fits.
  10. Standard memberKellyJay
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    15 Oct '05 13:09
    Originally posted by invigorate
    Has there been a scientific study?
    Science cannot study the spiritual.
    Kelly
  11. Standard memberthesonofsaul
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    15 Oct '05 13:53
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    Science cannot study the spiritual.
    Kelly
    Who said that prayer was spiritual? (Take nothing for granted.)
  12. DonationPawnokeyhole
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    15 Oct '05 13:55
    Originally posted by invigorate
    Has there been a scientific study?
    There's actually a book called "The God Experiment" on this very subject, though I haven't read it. However, I saw a documentary on the study that it proposes or outlines. The experimental theologists involved had people pray for one group of patients, but not another. No statistically significant differences were found. However, God could have jinxed the study, so we'll never know.
  13. DonationPawnokeyhole
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    15 Oct '05 14:04
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    Science cannot study the spiritual.
    Kelly
    Why not? Do you have an argument to support your contention?

    Consider:

    To say that petitionary prayer works as a general rule is to assert that it generally leads God to increase the probability of the outcome prayed for being realized. No other sensible meaning can be attached to "works" in this context, except as a wilful attempt at obfuscation.

    So, if petitionary prayer works in general, the outcome prayed for will generally become more likely. This effect should in principle be empirically detectable across a series of representative studies if suitable control or comparison groups can be found.

    For example, you might expect sports teams with religious members and supporters to do better than those with atheistic members and supporters, controlling for all other relevant variables.

    God could, of course, confound our investigative efforts, if only by increasing aid the unprayed for, or reducing aid to the prayed for, or a bit of both. But why should He consider that more of a priority than easing the plight of the innocent victims of the recent Earthquake in Pakistan?
  14. Standard memberKellyJay
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    15 Oct '05 14:11
    Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole
    Why not? Do you have an argument to support your contention?

    Consider:

    To say that petitionary prayer works as a general rule is to assert that it generally leads God to increase the probability of the outcome prayed for being realized. No other sensible meaning can be attached to "works" in this context, except as a wilful attempt at obfuscatio ...[text shortened]... a priority than easing the plight of the innocent victims of the recent Earthquake in Pakistan?
    Show me the spiritual, measure it, weight it, graph out progress of
    the spiritual, can you?

    Science is blind to those types of things.
    Kelly
  15. Standard memberKellyJay
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    15 Oct '05 14:12
    Originally posted by thesonofsaul
    Who said that prayer was spiritual? (Take nothing for granted.)
    Tell me about prayer that isn't spiritual, and I said it was if you
    are asking.
    Kelly
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