1. not of this world
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    30 Oct '06 22:00
    It's a common thing today, to argue saying that Dschihad is justified because of christians having led crusades in the past.

    However, people are often forgetting a very important fact. Let's start defining a christian and a muslim:
    A christian is someone living according to the Bible, a muslim someone living according to the Quran. And now, there's some shocking news:

    While crusades are absolutely against crusades, the Quran is absolutely pro Dschihad! This means, that every muslim who wants to live according and faithfully to the Quran, m u s t engage in Dschihad. Otherwise, he would fall short in putting his belief into practice.

    By the way, Islam is by definition a religion of war: Islam is the actif form of Salaam, with signifies peace in Arab. With other words: One is working actively towards peace, and this through war! Muslims and christians don't have the same definition of peace, not at all!
  2. Felicific Forest
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    30 Oct '06 22:14
    One must not forget that the crusades were an answer to the expansion of Islam to the west. Nowadays it is not done to emphasise this and the current liberal fashion, parroting the present extremist Jihadists, even turns things 180 degrees by stating that past and present Jihad is an answer to the crusades.
  3. not of this world
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    30 Oct '06 22:42
    I agree absolutely on that one.
  4. Felicific Forest
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    30 Oct '06 23:56
    Originally posted by louisXIV
    I agree absolutely on that one.
    Thanks Louis.
  5. Joined
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    31 Oct '06 00:01
    Originally posted by louisXIV
    It's a common thing today, to argue saying that Dschihad is justified because of christians having led crusades in the past.

    However, people are often forgetting a very important fact. Let's start defining a christian and a muslim:
    A christian is someone living according to the Bible, a muslim someone living according to the Quran. And now, there's som ...[text shortened]... his through war! Muslims and christians don't have the same definition of peace, not at all!
    I don't think you know any thing about Islam

    But lets begin

    You said Islam is from word Salam which mean Pease then you say it means war

    Does this make any sense to you.
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    31 Oct '06 00:02
    Originally posted by louisXIV
    It's a common thing today, to argue saying that Dschihad is justified because of christians having led crusades in the past.

    However, people are often forgetting a very important fact. Let's start defining a christian and a muslim:
    A christian is someone living according to the Bible, a muslim someone living according to the Quran. And now, there's som ...[text shortened]... his through war! Muslims and christians don't have the same definition of peace, not at all!
    Where did you got the information that my faith will not complete untill I fight. That is absoultly not true.


    Give me you source or stop talking...
  7. not of this world
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    31 Oct '06 10:51
    Originally posted by ahosyney
    Where did you got the information that my faith will not complete untill I fight. That is absoultly not true.


    Give me you source or stop talking...
    [b]Where did you got the information that my faith will not complete untill I fight. That is absoultly not true.

    My source is: The Quran! Let's have a look at some Surahs:

    "O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors of each other. And he amongst you that turns to them is one of them..." (5.54)

    "Fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every strategem." (9.5)

    "The punishment of those who wage against Allah and his apostle, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution or crucifixion, or the cutting off the hands and feet from opposite sides or exile from the land..." (Surah 5.36)

    I think all this is clear enough and speaks for itself. Are you faithful to your faith or not? Do you agree with what the Quran says? Otherwise, you can't call yourself a muslim!
  8. Cape Town
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    31 Oct '06 12:241 edit
    Originally posted by louisXIV
    Where did you got the information that my faith will not complete untill I fight. That is absoultly not true.

    My source is: The Quran! Let's have a look at some Surahs:

    "O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors of each other. And he amongst you that turns to them is not? Do you agree with what the Quran says? Otherwise, you can't call yourself a muslim!
    Your comprehension ability is poor. Only the second quote you give implies anything close to your claim.

    I am sure people can find any number of equivalent verses in the Bible. Unless you are jewish however, most such verses would encourage slaughtering you as well.
  9. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    31 Oct '06 12:281 edit
    Originally posted by louisXIV
    Where did you got the information that my faith will not complete untill I fight. That is absoultly not true.

    My source is: The Quran! Let's have a look at some Surahs:

    "O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors of each other. And he amongst you that turns to them is not? Do you agree with what the Quran says? Otherwise, you can't call yourself a muslim!
    You'll find that the concept of jihad is subject to interpretation, with at least four different meanings: warfare bounded by specific conditions, revolt against an impious ruler, moral self-improvement, or political and social reform ( http://www.ict.org.il/articles/jihad.htm ). Your failure to mention these distinctions leads me to believe that you have accepted your prejudices at face value.

    I notice that you've quoted lines from the Koran without referring to their context or subsequent developments in Islamic thought. Do you have a similar literalist approach to the Bible? It's very easy to play the same game and show how the Bible endorses slavery, genocide, infanticide, child-rape and many other things which no modern Christian would support.
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    31 Oct '06 12:47
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Your comprehension ability is poor. Only the second quote you give implies anything close to your claim.

    I am sure people can find any number of equivalent verses in the Bible. Unless you are jewish however, most such verses would encourage slaughtering you as well.
    Probably you can find similar quotes in the bible (OT, I'd guess) and no doubt that the jews have something pretty much the same.

    The point here is that there's only one of these religions actively following such crap - guess which one.
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    31 Oct '06 13:001 edit
    Originally posted by sugiezd
    The point here is that there's only one of these religions actively following such crap - guess which one.
    Those Christian fundamentalists in the states that think 9/11 was a good thing? Who? 🙄
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    31 Oct '06 13:42
    Originally posted by louisXIV
    [b]Where did you got the information that my faith will not complete untill I fight. That is absoultly not true.

    My source is: The Quran! Let's have a look at some Surahs:

    "O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors of each other. And he amongst you that turns to them is ...[text shortened]... not? Do you agree with what the Quran says? Otherwise, you can't call yourself a muslim!
    They already answered you and here is my answer:

    1. Of course the first one is simply doesn't talk about war or any thing. It regulate the relation between Muslims and other religons and I think it make sense. Islam is not just a religon. It is a complete system, plotical, social , and religous. So if you talk about the islamic nation so it will be very clear for you.

    2. The second one you take out from its context. If you read the whole chapter may be you understand.

    3. The third one is totally talking about something else. It is simply the punishment stated by GOD for people who commite a specific crimes like armed robbery and highjacking.

    As they told if you open the bible you will find more and more. We are as Muslims even if we had to fight we are not allowed to touch womens , children , elders, trees, animals or any properity. But your Bible ask you to do that, kill every living. And that is exactly what you follow. If you don't follow so you are not good christian.
  13. Cape Town
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    31 Oct '06 13:44
    Originally posted by sugiezd
    Probably you can find similar quotes in the bible (OT, I'd guess) and no doubt that the jews have something pretty much the same.

    The point here is that there's only one of these religions actively following such crap - guess which one.
    Religions do not follow crap. Followers do.

    If you think all Muslims are having a Jihad and all Christians have stopped their crusades then you are extremely ignorant. (Don't forget that Bush claimed that God sent him to war).

    I believe that Israel has been an aggressor more times than the reverse.

    The former apartheid Government here in South Africa claimed Christian backing for their form of violence.
  14. London
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    31 Oct '06 14:02
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    If you think all Muslims are having a Jihad and all Christians have stopped their crusades then you are extremely ignorant.
    How many Christians do you know are fighting to recover the Holy Land from Muslim rule?
  15. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    31 Oct '06 14:041 edit
    Originally posted by lucifershammer
    How many Christians do you know are fighting to recover the Holy Land from Muslim rule?
    The Teutonic Knights crusaded in Lithuania, so the Holy Land itself is not important for any definition of "crusade". The current USA president has referred to the "war on terror" as a "crusade".

    "Crusade" is just a propaganda term used to justify a conflict.
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