Dschihad versus crusades

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
The Teutonic Knights crusaded in Lithuania, so the Holy Land itself is not important for any definition of "crusade". The current USA president has referred to the "war on terror" as a "crusade".

"Crusade" is just a propaganda term used to justify a conflict.

The Lithuanian campaign wasn't a 'Crusade' unless you're using the term to refer to any Christian--non-Christian conflict.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
The Lithuanian campaign wasn't a 'Crusade' unless you're using the term to refer to any Christian--non-Christian conflict.

The Northern Crusades were indeed Crusades by Christian Warriors against godless heathens.

"The Pope proclaimed a crusade against the Baltic heathens in 1193 and a crusading expedition led by Meinhard's successor, Bishop Berthold, landed in Livonia (part of present-day Latvia, surrounding the Gulf of Riga) in 1198. Although the crusaders won their first battle, Bishop Berthold was mortally wounded and the crusaders were repulsed." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Crusades

Originally posted by lucifershammer
How many Christians do you know are fighting to recover the Holy Land from Muslim rule?

I did not capitalize the word. Crusade has a rather broad meaning. In fact many churches in Zambia have regular Crusades (Yes they do use that word).

According to some documentaries, a significant amount of Americas support of Israel is exactly "fighting to recover the Holy Land from Muslim rule" or at least maintain the status quo in Jerusalem.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
The Northern Crusades were indeed Crusades by Christian Warriors against godless heathens.

"The Pope proclaimed a crusade against the Baltic heathens in 1193 and a crusading expedition led by Meinhard's successor, Bishop Berthold, landed in Livonia (part of present-day Latvia, surrounding the Gulf of Riga) in 1198. Although the crusaders won their f ...[text shortened]... ally wounded and the crusaders were repulsed." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Crusades

Bosse you are great.

I wish I know the history of Crusades as you do...

Any source you suggest....

Originally posted by ahosyney
Bosse you are great.

I wish I know the history of Crusades as you do...

Any source you suggest....

Don't give me too much credit. I'm just a Google warrior.

BdN, twh - thanks. I stand corrected.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Your comprehension ability is poor. Only the second quote you give implies anything close to your claim.

I am sure people can find any number of equivalent verses in the Bible. Unless you are jewish however, most such verses would encourage slaughtering you as well.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Your comprehension ability is poor. Only the second quote you give implies anything close to your claim.

I am sure people can find any number of equivalent verses in the Bible. Unless you are jewish however, most such verses would encourage slaughtering you as well.

I challenge you find just one such verse in the Bible. Le message of the Bible is exactly the contrary: Love your ennemies!

Originally posted by louisXIV
Originally posted by twhitehead
[b]Your comprehension ability is poor. Only the second quote you give implies anything close to your claim.

I am sure people can find any number of equivalent verses in the Bible. Unless you are jewish however, most such verses would encourage slaughtering you as well.

I challenge you find just one such verse in the Bible. Le message of the Bible is exactly the contrary: Love your ennemies![/b]

Luk 19:27
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Originally posted by louisXIV
Originally posted by twhitehead
[b]Your comprehension ability is poor. Only the second quote you give implies anything close to your claim.

I am sure people can find any number of equivalent verses in the Bible. Unless you are jewish however, most such verses would encourage slaughtering you as well.

I challenge you find just one such verse in the Bible. Le message of the Bible is exactly the contrary: Love your ennemies![/b]

Look here for the real love for enemies..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition

Surely it can be agree that whether it be Jihad or Crusade, nothing good can come out of it. A body count doesnt prove any commitment to ones god/Allah. Does it not say,"though shalt not kill"?

Originally posted by ahosyney
Luk 19:27
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Originally posted by ahosyney
Luk 19:27
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

I'm very sorry Sir, but next time you quote from the Bible, please take note of the context. (Doing that is called exegesis by the way...) Jesus is telling a parabel, a story if this is easier for you, and is not at all calling for violence.

Please show me one verse where Jesus is making violence legitimate.

Look what he's saying instead:
Mat 5:44 -45 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven.

Originally posted by torydp
Surely it can be agree that whether it be Jihad or Crusade, nothing good can come out of it. A body count doesnt prove any commitment to ones god/Allah. Does it not say,"though shalt not kill"?

Originally posted by torydp
Surely it can be agree that whether it be Jihad or Crusade, nothing good can come out of it. A body count doesnt prove any commitment to ones god/Allah. Does it not say,"though shalt not kill"?

The point is, crusades have been against Christ's teachings, while at the same time Jihad is absolutely in harmony with what Mohammed has been teaching.

Originally posted by louisXIV
Originally posted by torydp
[b]Surely it can be agree that whether it be Jihad or Crusade, nothing good can come out of it. A body count doesnt prove any commitment to ones god/Allah. Does it not say,"though shalt not kill"?

The point is, crusades have been against Christ's teachings, while at the same time Jihad is absolutely in harmony with what Mohammed has been teaching.[/b]

First, what do you mean exactly by “Jihad,” in the context of this discussion?

Second, if you mean wars of conversion or aggression, could you cite any Qur’anic statements that encourage/support the same—without taking Qur’anic statements out of context, since you rightfully object to that with regard to the Bible? (Qur’anic context is difficult, since it seems to be more “dialectical” than “narrative,” but the exegesis can be done.)

Third, what—if any—acts of warfare do not violate Christ’s teachings? That is, are you taking a pacifist position, or can Christians take part in some wars without violating the tenets of their faith (i.e., the “just war” concept)?

Originally posted by louisXIV
Originally posted by ahosyney
[b]Luk 19:27
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

I'm very sorry Sir, but next time you quote from the Bible, please take note of the context. (Doing that is called exegesis by the way...) Jesus is telling a parabel, a story if this is easi and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven.[/b]

I will ask you a very simple question. Is Juses the same GOD in the Old Testament. If yes then he is a very Bloody GOD. If no then either he is not GOD and your faith is not true, or you worship two GODs, and you are close to any other idolator .

Is it clear for you now.

Originally posted by vistesd
First, what do you mean exactly by “Jihad,” in the context of this discussion?

Second, if you mean wars of conversion or aggression, could you cite any Qur’anic statements that encourage/support the same—without taking Qur’anic statements out of context, since you rightfully object to that with regard to the Bible? (Qur’anic context is difficult, since i ...[text shortened]... ke part in some wars without violating the tenets of their faith (i.e., the “just war” concept)?

That is a good point. Thank you for explaining it. I was going to say the same.

Islam doesn't support war for conversion or anything else. It is also for self defense. The Quran strictly state the regulations of war if required. That is because it provides a complete system. You understand it as a teaching for what should be the war be like if a muslim is forced to fight. But others see it as a call of violence.