Originally posted by dj2becker
Wow. You are so funny. Quoting the Hadith and the Quaran is now considered insulting someone? It was never my intention to insult anyone.
You know I am not referring to that (although you are quoting the Koran wildly out of context,
much like the way you do your own Holy Book).
I am referring to the hateful and spiteful attitude (about which you are utterly unrepentant)
you demonstrated earlier in this thread which you justified by saying that it was okay to be
rude and spiteful on behalf of Jesus. That is not adopting a loving attitude towards your
brother.
You seem to forget the portion that says if you see your brother going lost and you do not warn him, his blood will be upon your hands.
Did you warn him? No. You belittled his faith (about which you know next to nothing except
what you've regurgitated from the internet). He is earnest about trying to teach you, but you
are determined not to learn.
I never knew Jesus to be a closed-minded listener. Somehow you've read this into His personality
as well and only further testifies to your being separate from Jesus.
Nemesio
Originally posted by NemesioI hope any one talk with me about my faith. You see, in this thread and other thread when some try to talk about Islam no one touch the Muslim faith. Only they are trying to attack some part of the Islamic Law and generalize their thoughts.
Originally posted by dj2becker
[b]Wow. You are so funny. Quoting the Hadith and the Quaran is now considered insulting someone? It was never my intention to insult anyone.
You know I am not referring to that (although you are quoting the Koran wildly out of context,
much like the way you do your own Holy Book).
I am referring to the hat ...[text shortened]... personality
as well and only further testifies to your being separate from Jesus.
Nemesio[/b]
I don't have a reason that no one try to discuss my faith with except that they don't know it, or they don't find a problem of it so they try to find another method to attack Islam..
I really want someone to come to me and show what is wrong with my faith..
I asked that question before and I didn't get an answer.
What do you think is wrong with the Muslim faith?
Originally posted by ahosyneyNo Easter Bunny.
I hope any one talk with me about my faith. You see, in this thread and other thread when some try to talk about Islam no one touch the Muslim faith. Only they are trying to attack some part of the Islamic Law and generalize their thoughts.
I don't have a reason that no one try to discuss my faith with except that they don't know it, or they don't find ...[text shortened]... ion before and I didn't get an answer.
What do you think is wrong with the Muslim faith?
Originally posted by ahosyneyany way that threaten came only from Iran and Khomine and as I pointed above, They are Sheia and they don't represent Muslims. Actually they are not considered Muslims. So their opinions doesn't represnt Islamic point of view.
I think Visited has answered this point before.
any way that threaten came only from Iran and Khomine and as I pointed above, They are Sheia and they don't represent Muslims. Actually they are not considered Muslims. So their opinions doesn't represnt Islamic point of view.
The other thing that was not Jihad that Khomini was calling for.
How easy:-) I thought you would have a better argument for that one...
Originally posted by louisXIVVisited gave a detailed answer for this point , please go back and read it.
any way that threaten came only from Iran and Khomine and as I pointed above, They are Sheia and they don't represent Muslims. Actually they are not considered Muslims. So their opinions doesn't represnt Islamic point of view.
How easy:-) I thought you would have a better argument for that one...
So you only have comments for this point 🙂 I gave a large replay for the article althougth you only see this point 🙂 , you really good.. Ignore what I don't want and focuse on what I want to show out...
Remember, You didn't answer my question yet? And you didn't replay to PM yet?
To continue my replay to this portion of the article:
Muslims are not permitted to make peace with a non-Muslim country until its inhabitants surrender to Islam. They can agree to a cease fire for a period of time – but never to peace with non Muslims.
I said it is a big lie. Also your friend ignore verses in Quran he didn't include in his article:
004.090
YUSUFALI: Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty (of peace), or those who approach you with hearts restraining them from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. If Allah had pleased, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you: Therefore if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (Guarantees of) peace, then Allah Hath opened no way for you (to war against them).
PICKTHAL: Except those who seek refuge with a people between whom and you there is a covenant, or (those who) come unto you because their hearts forbid them to make war on you or make war on their own folk. Had Allah willed He could have given them power over you so that assuredly they would have fought you. So, if they hold aloof from you and wage not war against you and offer you peace, Allah alloweth you no way against them.
SHAKIR: Except those who reach a people between whom and you there is an alliance, or who come to you, their hearts shrinking from fighting you or fighting their own people; and if Allah had pleased, He would have given them power over you, so that they should have certainly fought you; therefore if they withdraw from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not given you a way against them.
This verse state that if there is a treaty (of peace), Muslims cannot fight.
Then your frind simply come and say Muslims are not allowed to make peace.
So can you show me where is the facts you are talking about?
Also go to the verses of the first of Tawba which you previously trake out of context:
009.001
YUSUFALI: A (declaration) of immunity from Allah and His Messenger, to those of the Pagans with whom ye have contracted mutual alliances:-
PICKTHAL: Freedom from obligation (is proclaimed) from Allah and His messenger toward those of the idolaters with whom ye made a treaty.
SHAKIR: (This is a declaration of) immunity by Allah and His Messenger towards those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement.
009.002
YUSUFALI: Go ye, then, for four months, backwards and forwards, (as ye will), throughout the land, but know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah (by your falsehood) but that Allah will cover with shame those who reject Him.
PICKTHAL: Travel freely in the land four months, and know that ye cannot escape Allah and that Allah will confound the disbelievers (in His Guidance).
SHAKIR: So go about in the land for four months and know that you cannot weaken Allah and that Allah will bring disgrace to the unbelievers.
009.003
YUSUFALI: And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith.
PICKTHAL: And a proclamation from Allah and His messenger to all men on the day of the Greater Pilgrimage that Allah is free from obligation to the idolaters, and (so is) His messenger. So, if ye repent, it will be better for you; but if ye are averse, then know that ye cannot escape Allah. Give tidings (O Muhammad) of a painful doom to those who disbelieve,
SHAKIR: And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters; therefore if you repent, it will be better for you, and if you turn back, then know that you will not weaken Allah; and announce painful punishment to those who disbelieve.
009.004
YUSUFALI: (But the treaties are) not dissolved with thosePagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided any one against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term: for Allah loveth the righteous.
PICKTHAL: Excepting those of the idolaters with whom ye (Muslims) have a treaty, and who have since abated nothing of your right nor have supported anyone against you. (As for these), fulfil their treaty to them till their term. Lo! Allah loveth those who keep their duty (unto Him).
SHAKIR: Except those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement, then they have not failed you in anything and have not backed up any one against you, so fulfill their agreement to the end of their term; surely Allah loves those who are careful (of their duty).
009.005
YUSUFALI: But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
PICKTHAL: Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
SHAKIR: So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
009.006
YUSUFALI: If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.
PICKTHAL: And if anyone of the idolaters seeketh thy protection (O Muhammad), then protect him so that he may hear the Word of Allah, and afterward convey him to his place of safety. That is because they are a folk who know not.
SHAKIR: And if one of the idolaters seek protection from you, grant him protection till he hears the word of Allah, then make him attain his place of safety; this is because they are a people who do not know.
009.007
YUSUFALI: How can there be a league, before Allah and His Messenger, with the Pagans, except those with whom ye made a treaty near the sacred Mosque? As long as these stand true to you, stand ye true to them: for Allah doth love the righteous.
PICKTHAL: How can there be a treaty with Allah and with His messenger for the idolaters save those with whom ye made a treaty at the Inviolable Place of Worship? So long as they are true to you, be true to them. Lo! Allah loveth those who keep their duty.
SHAKIR: How can there be an agreement for the idolaters with Allah and with His Messenger; except those with whom you made an agreement at the Sacred Mosque? So as long as they are true to you, be true to them; surely Allah loves those who are careful (of their duty).
[b] Please read these verses carfuly , you will discover that your friend took out one verse out of 7 verses sequences taking about peace between Muslims and pagens. If the keep the peace we don't have hands on them. So your friend talking this verse out of its context twisted the meaning in two ways:
1 . First he wanted to support his claim that Musims are not allowed to have peace with others.
2 . To support his claim that a Muslim is ordered to kill directly. While the verses clearly state that if And if anyone of the idolaters seeketh protection , then protect him so that he may hear the Word of Allah, and afterward convey him to his place of safety. That is because they are a folk who know not.
Do you understand now what is your friend trying to do with his artical.
Originally posted by ahosyneyThere are a lot of imperfect things about everyone's faith. There are difficult
I really want someone to come to me and show what is wrong with my faith..
I asked that question before and I didn't get an answer.
What do you think is wrong with the Muslim faith?
passages in the Koran, and there are difficult passages in the Hebrew Scriptures.
DJBecker would like to pretend that his Holy Book is without flaw and your Holy
Book is a perversity. But in doing so he minimizes his own difficult passages
(where in the 'God of Love' smites people for the most trivial of offenses) and
focuses on your difficult passages.
The fact of the matter is, both Holy Books were written by human beings and,
consequently, are flawed. There are parts of both Books which are elegant,
inspired, powerful, and humbling. There are parts of both Books which attribute
to God aspects which are unpleasant.
When the Moslem can attend worship at a Christian altar and feel comfortable and
the Christian can attend worship in a Moslem masjid, that's when I have an interest
in speaking to them. While people are insisting 'my faith is the REAL faith and
your faith is just SATAN WORSHIP,' well, I just don't care enough to watch the
arrogant claim they have a monopoly on God.
Nemesio
Originally posted by NemesioYour claim is quite ridiculous, because religion in a real sense is by definition exclusive. If Jesus says "I'm the way, the truth and the life", this is as exclusive as it could be.
There are a lot of imperfect things about everyone's faith. There are difficult
passages in the Koran, and there are difficult passages in the Hebrew Scriptures.
DJBecker would like to pretend that his Holy Book is without flaw and your Holy
Book is a perversity. But in doing so he minimizes his own difficult passages
(where in the 'God of Love' sm t don't care enough to watch the
arrogant claim they have a monopoly on God.
Nemesio
There is no sense for me going to a mosque, if Jesus is the only and exclusive access to God. Please reconsider your argument...
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Originally posted by louisXIVSo maybe you can ask ahosyney to give you all the historical evidence which proves that Jesus did not actually die on the cross.
Your claim is quite ridiculous, because religion in a real sense is by definition exclusive. If Jesus says "I'm the way, the truth and the life", this is as exclusive as it could be.
There is no sense for me going to a mosque, if Jesus is the only and exclusive access to God. Please reconsider your argument...
I mean if the Quran is true, surely it should should correspond with history.
Originally posted by dj2beckerWhy don't you admit first that you've been quoting it out of context to support some rather nasty pre-conceived ideas?
So maybe you can ask ahosyney to give you all the historical evidence which proves that Jesus did not actually die on the cross.
I mean if the Quran is true, surely it should should correspond with history.
You manage to be brainless, dishonest and arrogant at once, it's astounding.