Originally posted by theprotectorsPrecisely. For all the quoting of Albert being done here, his greatest one was "The important thing is to never stop QUESTIONING."
No, no, no but he was born a jew that we can agree on... what his belife was later in life we dont know but he still belonged to the jewish faith. And futher more it is a very jewish thing to ask questions. And it is all about the question not the answer as you might think....
yes for me🙂
Originally posted by Bosse de NageSo, I take it you are a Buddhist? How did you decide that religion was more believable than another?
Just for you:
"I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the wea ...[text shortened]... t could cope with modern scientific needs it would be Buddhism. (Albert Einstein)"
Originally posted by PinkFloydI posted that quote to show Einstein's views, not mine.
So, I take it you are a Buddhist? How did you decide that religion was more believable than another?
Buddhism is obviously more credible to a skeptic than the rest; it doesn't rely on the supernatural. But I have no religion.
Originally posted by Bosse de NageI think you know perfectly well that when you tell someone that you believe in God they imagine that you are talking about their God or at least something similar. I think that even when you go further and try to explain it a bit the majority of people still do not realize that you do not believe in anything even remotely similar to the typical theistic God.
Serious accusations -- please show how I deceive people into thinking that I believe in 'their God'.
I could be wrong about you knowing this, but I cant see any other reason why you would use the word 'God'. I suspect - though I could be completely wrong - that you only hold onto Spinoza's God in order to avoid being labeled an atheist.
Originally posted by twhiteheadI use the word 'God' because of what it means.
I think you know perfectly well that when you tell someone that you believe in God they imagine that you are talking about their God or at least something similar. I think that even when you go further and try to explain it a bit the majority of people still do not realize that you do not believe in anything even remotely similar to the typical theistic G ...[text shortened]... ely wrong - that you only hold onto Spinoza's God in order to avoid being labeled an atheist.
It really isn't my problem if the majority of people are as stupid as you describe. I object to wearing a label for others' convenience. But since Spinoza has been categorised as an atheist, feel free to consider me one as well. A Spinozan atheist.
Originally posted by Bosse de NagePerhaps you should consider a small "G", rather than a large one. The god you are referring to isn't God.
I use the word 'God' because of what it means.
It really isn't my problem if the majority of people are as stupid as you describe. I object to wearing a label for others' convenience. But since Spinoza has been categorised as an atheist, feel free to consider me one as well. A Spinozan atheist.
Originally posted by Bosse de NageFrom which dictionary? I looked up Merriam-Webster:
I use the word 'God' because of what it means.
1 capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality: as a: the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped as creator and ruler of the universe b Christian Science : the incorporeal divine Principle ruling over all as eternal Spirit : infinite Mind
I cant see Spinozas definition fitting into that.
I suspect Spinoza started out as a Theist then upon realizing that such a God could not exist started removing the attributes he felt could not be possible. But in doing so he stripped so many attributes that he was essentially describing the universe and should at that point have changed his terminology.
Originally posted by Bosse de NageThat is not the definition of the word 'God'. In fact it was the Abrahamic God attempting to avoid having a label.
The dictionary of Moses.
* I am who I am.
* I am what I am.
* I am what I will be.
* I will be what I will be.
* I will be what I shall be.
* I will be what tomorrow demands.
* I am what I cause to be.
Originally posted by twhitehead1. Evidently not. English didn't exist at the time ... so Moses wouldn't have understood him.
It would be wasting my time. It is you that is wrong and not him.
1. God never said that.
2. Moses never wrote a dictionary.
3. The bit of the Bible you are referencing is not a definition for the word God.
What God supposedly said was "Ehyeh-Asher-Ehyeh'', which has multiple meanings corresponding to what I quoted.
2. No kidding.
3. So what? Perhaps dictionaries are less than useful in a discussion like this.
Originally posted by Bosse de NageThe problem is that you are using one imaginary being you call God to back up your usage of the same word 'God' to mean something totally different.
1. Evidently not. English didn't exist at the time ... so Moses wouldn't have understood him.
What God supposedly said was "Ehyeh-Asher-Ehyeh'', which has multiple meanings corresponding to what I quoted.
2. No kidding.
3. So what? Perhaps dictionaries are less than useful in a discussion like this.
I realize dictionaries are not the be-all and end-all ('God'?) of language.
You claimed that the word 'God' means the concept that Spinoza called 'God'. But what does it means to say that a word means something except that it is common usage or at least well understood usage for that word? You have not provide any references to show that that is the case.
Your reference to Moses (who by the way did not write any of the Bible), did not show that even Moses defined 'God' or even the Hebrew equivalent in that way. Moses clearly believed that a being existed with a lot more attributes than that.
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Originally posted by twhiteheadOne of the reasons Spinoza was excommunicated by the Dutch Jewish community was that he claimed Moses didn't write the Bible. Or rather that Moses was like Homer: a symbol. So it doesn't really matter what a symbol believed. What does matter? I leave that for you to answer.
The problem is that you are using one imaginary being you call God to back up your usage of the same word 'God' to mean something totally different.
I realize dictionaries are not the be-all and end-all ('God'?) of language.
You claimed that the word 'God' means the concept that Spinoza called 'God'. But what does it means to say that a word means somet way. Moses clearly believed that a being existed with a lot more attributes than that.
I referred to a name of God supposedly uttered to Moses in a passage of Exodus. The meaning of that name is as I have said ( http://theory.stanford.edu/~oldham/church/ex316/Notes.html ). It's of little concern to me that it's not in your dictionary. If you want to know how it ties up with Spinoza -- read (at least a good commentary on) Spinoza. But I've no desire to push Spinoza, or his God, on you.
As far as this thread is concerned, nobody seems much the wiser. Einstein was an atheist, nor not, depending on how you interpret his attachment to Spinoza.