I am going to shorten some of this discussion.
Revelation 17:8 - The beast that you saw was and is not and is about to come up out of the abyss and go into perdition. And those who dwell on the earth, those whose names are not written from the foundation of the world in the book of life, will marvel when they see the beast, that he was and is not and will be present."
When John was writing some person had already died. He was but is not. Sometime future to John this dead person will be again and will be present. This he will do by coming up out of the abyss.
So we can ascertain that the beast, who we may call the Antichrist, is some dead person who will be present again.
Then John speaks of the seven mountians where the woman sits. John says that the symbology is of seven mountains on one hand and also of seven kings. The seven mountains are understood by some of us to be the seven hills upon which the city of Rome is built. Rome is a city built on seven mountains. Now the seven kings are spoken of also:
"And are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain only a short time.
And the beast who was and is not, he himself is also the eighth and is out of the seven and goes into perdition" (vs.10,11)
The seven kings are seven Ceasars of the Roman Empire. The first five " have fallen" meaning that they died unnaturally. Compare this way of speaking to that in (Judges 3:5; 2 Samuek 1:10, 25, 27)
Some of us believe that five "fallen" Roman kings are:
Julius Ceasar,
Tiberius,
Caligula,
Claudius,
Nero
all of whom either were murdered or committed suicide before John wrote this book of Revelation. The sixth Domitian who was also murdered, was the king living when this book was written. Therefore John wrote that he "is".
The seventh Ceasar is "the other" who has not yet come when John was writing - "And there are seven kings: five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet comel and when he comes, he must remain ony a short time"
So in an above post I made a mistake. The one who comes and remains a short time is the seventh king. My purpose here is to show how we arrive at the logic that the spirit of Nero will come up from the abyss and inhabit the body of another person.
Follow closely:
The "other" king, the seventh, is the coming Antichrist. He had not yet come at that time of John's writing. When he comes, he will remain only a short time and then will be slain and will be resuscutated by the spirit of the fifth Ceasar, who is Nero, to become the Eighth. This is what some of us interpret.
Antichrist will be the coming seventh Caesar. But he is also the eighth. According to Revelation 13:3, Antichrist will be slain and resuscitated.
" ... And the dragon gave him his power and his throne amd great authority. And one of his heads was as it were slain to death, and his death stroke was healed. And thoe whole earth marveled after the beast." (See Revelation 13:2,3)
In the resuscitation from the death stroke, the seventh king will come back to life to be the eighth king. But in that resuscitation the spirit of Nero, (the fifth Caesar), which will come up out of the abyss (when Satan is cast down to the earth Revelation 12:10,13) will animate and resuscutate the dead body of the seventh Caesar, Antichrist, thereby imitating the resurrection of Jesus Christ for the world to marvel.
I slightly made a mistake above in a previous post. Now I am correcting myself.
This Eighth king is composed of the Seventh king and the Fifth king. So he "is out of the seven" (17:11)
He is also "the eighth and is out of the seven."
Five of the seven had fallen in unnatural death at the time of John writing Revelation. The sixth was and the seventh had not yet come. When the seventh comes he is to continue only a short time. He is slain and his death stroke is healed causing the whole world to marvel. And at that time someone comes up out of the abyss who is called the beast.
So this Antichrist has two components. He has a resuscitated human body and a spirit which comes up out of the abyss. Some of us believe that Nero's spirit will inhabit the body of the coming seventh Caesar after he is slain. The seventh Ceasar's body and the fifth Ceasar's spriit will combine to be the Eighth Ceasar.
Now here is where we see that Antichrist is also discribed as the beast coming up out of the abyss:
"Therefore be glad, O heavens and those who dwell in them, Woe to the earth and the sea because the devil has come down to you and has great rage, knowing that he has only a short time" (Rev. 12:12)
During this short time when Satan is cast down and limited to the earth what happens?
"And he (the dragon Satan) stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns, etc. etc. ... And the dragon gave him his power and his throne and great authority" (See Rev. 12:18-13:2)
In short Satan stands on the earth around the Mediteranean Sea and summons up the spirit of someone out of the abyss. This person is the Antichrist. He gives to this person summoned up out of the abyss his Satanic authority and Satanic throne.
No, you don't want to be here to see it.
In short the coming down of Satan in great rage because he has only a short time will trigger also him summoning up from the dead the spirit of the fifth Ceasar to inhabit the body of the Seventh Ceasar who by that time will have come for a short time. The Seventh Ceasar is slain and the fifth Ceasar's spirit inhabits his body in a Satanic resurrection to create the Eigth Ceasar.
"And one of his heads was as it were slain to death, and his death stroke was healed. And the whole earth marveled after the beast" (13:4)
Now this matter of Satan descending and the Antichrist coming up from the sea must be compared to Revelation chapter 9 which seems to agree.
"And the fifth angel trumpeted, and I saw a star out of heaven fallen to the earth, and to him was given the key of the pit of the abyss. And he opened the pit of the abyss, and smoke went up out of the pit like the smoke of a great furnace ... and out of the smoke cane forth locusts .... etc. etc. ... They have a king over them, the angel of the anyss; his name is Hebrew is Abaddon; and in Greek he has the name Apollyon" (See Rev. 9:1-3, 11)
The star falling from heaven in chapter 9 corresponds to Satan being cast down in chapter 12.
The star given the keys to the pit of the abyss in chapter 9 corresponds to the dragon standing on the sea and summoning up someone from the sea.
The angel of the abyss who is king over all the evil things which come out of the abyss in chapter 9 corresponds to the beast coming up out of the sea at the dragon's summoning in chapter 13.
The being is called the beast in chapter 13 and 17. In chapter 9 he is given the names in Hebrew as Abaddon and in Greek as "Apollyon". He is a great destroyer.
The angel of the abyss some of us therefore take to be the Antichrist. Specifically the slain coming seventh Ceasar's body brought back to life with the spirit out of the abyss of the fifth Caesar - Nero.
Now all of this about Nero is made rather hard to dismiss because of the fact that the beast's number 666 calculates out by a certain method to signify the letters of the name Caesar Nero. But I will not go into that now.
So it is not only that we surmise that Nero is Antichrist, or at least the spirit of the slain and resuscitated Antichrist. But we are told by John that he has a number of 666. Some scholars agreeing or disagreeing with my eschatology do agree that 666 well stands for Ceasar Nero. That is nothing new. But the method by which we derive Nero's name from the numbers I will not cover now.
My purpose was to show the poster how we apply a method of interpretation to arrive at certain beliefs.
End Times
29 Oct '06 00:52
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