Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
How do you know that they were rebuked
and then went on to lead blameless lives?
How do you know that they suddenly after being
rebuked became role models for the rest of us to
look at and follow?
Where you there? Did you see them being rebuked?
Did you see a change later?
No, you didn't. You only know what some other bastard wrote
...[text shortened]... ejected.
So don't preach about something unless you were there
and you saw it for yourself.
How do you know that they were rebuked
and then went on to lead blameless lives?
First of all it should be obvious that Jesus
rebuked them.
Secondly, I didn't say they immediately went on to lead "blameless lives", as if they needed no more correction after this one instance.
John went on to write the three epistles of John which manifest a deep level of maturity.
I don't think it was the last mistake they ever made in that afterwards they were "blameless."
How do you know that they suddenly after being
rebuked became role models for the rest of us to
look at and follow?
I didn't say that suddenly they became role models. I don't think a person jumps from 5th grade to 12th grade after one lesson. I don't think a teenage immediately acts like a 32 year old adult after only one correction.
Still they were disciple, perfected as in a relative sense, not in an absolute sense. I suspect until the day they died or were martyred they still considered themselves in need of spiritual growth.
Paul in Philippians said he did not count himself to have arrived at full maturity. But by the time he wrote his letters to Timothy, just before his likely martyrdom, he said he had
"finished the course, kept the faith, and run the race"
God's will is that all the disciples be conformed to the image of His Son. And that is the work that the first disciples pioneered to allow Christ to perform upon them.
Where you there? Did you see them being rebuked?
Did you see a change later?
I was not there of course. By reading the plain text and observing their continued following of the Lord I can see with little problem that they stuck it out and matured.
Do you have evidence that Christ's word to them made no impression upon their lives whatsoever ? What is your evidence for your skepticism ?
This James is not the same James who wrote the NT epistle after the name of
James. However, I do believe it the same James who was killed for his faith in Christ.
And the three letters of the disciple
John -
First, Second, and Third John are wonderful models of a man saturated with the Holy Spirit - completely consecrated to Jesus Christ.
The question may be would you know that if you saw it ?
No, you didn't. You only know what some other bastard wrote
and so you take his word for it.
The question is would someone like you know spiritual maturity in Jesus Christ if he saw it. You seem to have difficulty in seeing the holiness in the Son of God Himself.
The names of the twelve apostles - including
John and
James are on the foundation of the New Jerusalem, the consummate glorious city -
"And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb." (Rev. 21:14)
What an honor that the names of
John and
James and
Peter - all imperfect men, will be eternally written on the foundations of the glorious and holy city of God.
I have full confidence that they were sanctified, transformed and conformed to the image of Christ.
John for one could not lead where he himself did not go. And his epistles have led probably millions into a deeper walk with Christ.
Don't worry about
James and
John. You should be more concerned whether
johnnylongwood has been saved and entered into the perfecting of the Holy Spirit for that glorious destination of
New Jerusalem.
It's hearsay, hearsay is not evidence and it is not admissible
in a court of law.
Hearsay is not fact and therefore has to be rejected.
So don't preach about something unless you were there
and you saw it for yourself.
Not preaching would be convenient for you because perhaps you love your sinful life and wish not to be bothered by the New Testament Gospel.
But you cannot stop us from preaching nor from causing the faith to grow and spread throughout the world.
And your standard for court room testimony for the New Testament is probably far more stringent than it is for other ancient matters and people which you accept with little problem because you heard it second hand - ie. Alexander the Great, Socrates, Julius Caesar, Homer to name a few.
I bet you do not dismiss them as historical figures. They represent no problem to your living as Jesus Christ the Son of God does. So I reject your outrageous and hypocritical double standard.
Why pretend historical objectivity when basically you're only looking out for your own self willed sin loving skin ?
14 May '13 14:15
Eternal damnation?
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