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So it is erroneous to take Matthew 25:31-46 to refer to a grand final universal judgment.
All the nations (Gentiles) are before the Lord here. And the WHEN of this judgment is before the millennial kingdom.
"Then the King will say to those on His right hand, Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world." (v.34)
But the last judgment we see in the history of the world occurs at the great white throne AFTER the millennium (Revelation 20:11-15).
And that final judgment is made up of all the dead.
"And I saw the dead, the great and the small standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened, and another scroll was opened, which is the book of life, And the dead were judged by the things which were written in the scrolls. according to their deeds." (Rev. 20:12)
The judgment in Matthew 25:31-46 is a gathering of LIVING people from all the nations. None of them are dead. The Scriptures teach that resurrection occurs twice - the first resurrection (Rev. 20:4-6) includes these words:
" The rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were completed, THIS IS THE FIRST RESURRECTION.
Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years."
The inheriting of the kingdom prepared from the foundation of the world (Matt. 25:34) therefore must refer to the COMMENCEMENT of that thousand years and not its conclusion.
The parable / prophecy of Matthew 25:31-46 is about a judgment before the 1,000 years and of living nations who arrive before Christ's judgment throne after the great tribulation.
The prophecy corresponds to Joel 3:12 about God gathering nations to be judged in the valley of Jehoshaphat.
" Let the nations rouse themselves and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat. For there I will sit to judge all the surrounding nations." (Joel 3:12)
We'll look at Joel's phrophecy more below.
-Removed-I'm sorry I don't know what a "dispesational translation" is?
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Okay. Tell me what you think about some things in Second Thessalonians.
Who do you think will be doing this marveling at the transfigured saints ?
"When He [Christ] comes to be glorified in His saints and to be marveled at in all those who have believed (because our testimony to you was believed) in that day." ( Second Thess. 1:10)
Do you get the sense that this is the negative marveling of condemned people about to perish ?
Or do you get the sense that this is a somewhat more positive marveling of spared people who are admiring the supernatural glorification of Christ and His saints ?
I get the tone of a more positive marveling of people who admire rather than draw back in horror, at Christ's saints. I might not be able to prove it. But I do get this kind of sense from the passage.
Not only, but the verses above seem to suggest that God's judgment of vengence falls on two categories of people:
1.) Those who simply do not know God.
2.) Those who do not obey the Gospel of Christ.
" And you who are being afflicted, rest with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with the angels of His power, in flaming fire.
Rendering vengeance to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ,
They will pay the penalty of eternal destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His strength
When He comes to be glorified in His saints and to be marveled at in all those who have believed ..." (2 Thess. 1:7-10a)
IF Paul meant that some have divine vengeance upon them because they know not God, and others have vengeance upon them because they obey not the gospel of Christ, that would confirm:
1.) Some who do not know about the Gospel yet heeded an eternal gospel to fear God the Creator, will be spared because they DO know God.
2.) Some who neither know God are condemned under God's vengeance.
3.) Some who did not obey the Gospel of Christ are condemned under God's vengeance as well.
4.) Some who were spared condemnation will marvel at the saints of Christ who accompany Him.
IE. One of these the least of His brothers.
Please note that the prophecy of Joel 3:11,12 says that "mighty ones" come along with Christ to the Holy Land at His judgment of the surrounding nations.
Quite rightly these "mighty ones" if transfigured saints, would be marveled at.
" Hurry and come, All you surrounding nations and be gathered.
There cause Your mighty ones to descend, O Jehovah.
Let the nations rouse themselves and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat. For there I will sit to judge all the surrounding nations." (Joel 3:11,12)
I believe this accompanying ones will be the brothers, then glorified and with Jesus, that He refers to.
The spared sheep of the living Gentile nations will marvel at these mighty ones within whom Christ is now glorified.
-Removed-This is only one of many reasons why you should find a church amenable to you and go on a regular basis (other reasons include fellowship with like-minded people). You ragged all over me for suggesting this before, but your post only shows the folly of leaning on your own understanding. One person doesn't know everything there is to know.
Originally posted by sonshipSycophants will tolerate your ridiculous doctrines. Apparently Dive appears to be a lot like me .. and cannot stand BS. Some people are like that. Their BS meter is very sensitive and once activated, they have to register their disapproval regardless of the consequences.
You are the one who twists other's words and bears false witness with lies about what they wrote.
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Originally posted by Rajk999Sycophants will tolerate your ridiculous doctrines.
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As usual, instead of offering me cogent counter arguments you resort to insulting others who just may be quietly reading along.
Excuse me. I invited close scrutinizing, particularly to KellyJay. I welcomed a Berean attitude not a sycophant attitude.
I took the initiative to request questions.
Apparently Dive appears to be a lot like me .
. and cannot stand BS.
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Does profanity or initials of profanity somehow make you think your points are stronger?
Some people are like that. Their BS meter is very sensitive and once activated, they have to register their disapproval regardless of the consequences.
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Go learn what this means -
"Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but only that which is good for building up, according to the need that it may give grace to those who hear." (Eph. 4:29)
Since you are so confident that you are in Christ and I am not, go learn what that command of the New Testament means.
You're all about keeping the commands of the New Testament, Right ?
Now if you have nothing else to contribute, I have some more points which will help some Berean like lovers of the word of God to see whether these things could be so.
And if they deem not ... maybe some day they will.
I'm convinced after much careful study.
Originally posted by sonshipI made a comment on another thread and raised the issue of what Christ said when He interpreted the parable of the Sower and the Seed, and what Christ said is contrary to your teachings. However you ran away from that discussion.
[b] Sycophants will tolerate your ridiculous doctrines.
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As usual, instead of offering me cogent counter arguments you resort to insulting others who just may be quietly reading along.
Excuse me. I invited close scrutinizing, particularly to KellyJay. ...[text shortened]...
And if they deem not ... maybe some day they will.
I'm convinced after much careful study.[/b]
BS is not profanity. In any case the most 'corrupt word' that can proceed from any Christian's mouth is false doctrines, such as doctrines not preached by Christ .. like what you are famous for preaching.
-Removed-We have been through this probably four times.
I have no confidence you will be corrected.
Clarification of my thoughts were made before.
You didn't listen then. I doubt you will now.
You think you have something on me which is just too good to let go. I don't think about clarifying yet again what I wrote and meant.
Like Rajk999, you come to the Forum with one and only one subject for discussion. Every talk has to eventually gravitate back to your accusations.