1. Standard membersonship
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    22 Sep '15 15:45
    This is not the first time I talked about this.

    At the end of this age, in the darkest times of the great tribulation, "an eternal gospel" will be announced supernaturally by an angel. This gospel - this "eternal gospel" is different from the gospel preached all during the church age by the apostles and Christian evangelism.

    The sheep and goats of Matthew 25:31-46 are people living on the earth at the time Jesus physically returns to earth. And they are saved or lost in regards to how they respond to this eternal gospel of Revelation 14:6-7.

    Here's the passage on "an eternal gospel". And we can discuss it below.

    " And I saw another angel flying in mid-heaven, having an eternal gospel to announce to those dwelling on the earth, even to every nation and tribe and tongue and people,

    Saying with a loud voice, Fear God and give Him glory because the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who has made heaven and earth and the sea and the springs of water. "


    I would begin by drawing your attention to the fact that this eternal gospel concerns only the acknowledgment of God as the Creator. Jesus Christ is not mentioned. Yet it is a "good news". Yet it is a gospel of an "eternal" significance.
  2. Standard memberKellyJay
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    22 Sep '15 15:59
    Originally posted by sonship
    This is not the first time I talked about this.

    At the end of this age, in the darkest times of the great tribulation, [b]"an eternal gospel"
    will be announced supernaturally by an angel. This gospel - this "eternal gospel" is different from the gospel preached all during the church age by the apostles and Christian evangelism.

    The shee ...[text shortened]... not mentioned. Yet it is a "good news". Yet it is a gospel of an "eternal" significance.[/b]
    So you think there are two different gospels?
  3. Standard membersonship
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    22 Sep '15 16:031 edit
    To understand the eternal gospel of Revelation 14:6-7 it is important to realize the surrounding things which will be going on in the world at that time.

    Antichrist, will be demanding that all his followers worship himself as god.

    Antichrist and his false prophet will be performing miraculous signs which will deceive many people living.

    Antichrist will be severely persecuting ALL religions. He exalts himself above EVERYTHING that is called God.

    " ... the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or an object of worship, so that he sits in the temple of God, setting himself forth, saying that he is God." (2 Thessalonians 2:3c-4)


    In other words ALL forms of Theism Antichrist will oppose.
    He will make Christopher Hitchens look like Pollyanna.

    OK let's get serious.

    The following is my [edited] speculation. I speculate but do not know the following -

    At that time it may be difficult to even get a Bible. So I would plead with moderately open minded skeptics to read a Bible now while Bibles are available.

    But I do not KNOW that all Bibles will be gone or very much underground.

    Antichrist's pressure will be so severe that a polarization of belief will be forced on the planet. One can follow him as god or one can worship the Creator of the universe. By that time things will be occurring which many will realize could only be occurring via the Creator of the universe.

    Here again is the contents of the eternal gospel preached in response to Antichrist's tyrannical opposition to all theism -

    " ... an eternal gospel to ... every nation and tribe and tongue and people,

    Saying with a loud voice, Fear God and give Him glory because the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who has made heaven and earth and the sea and the springs of water." (Rev. 14:6c-7)
  4. Standard memberKellyJay
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    22 Sep '15 16:11
    Originally posted by sonship
    To understand the [b]eternal gospel of Revelation 14:6-7 it is important to realize the surrounding things which will be going on in the world at that time.

    Antichrist, will be demanding that all his followers worship himself as god.

    Antichrist and his false prophet will be performing miraculous signs which will deceive many people living. ...[text shortened]... ho has made heaven and earth and the sea and the springs of water." (Rev. 14:6c-7) [/b] [/quote][/b]
    Matthew 25:34-36
    34 “Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who have been blessed by my Father! Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world, 35 because I was hungry, and you gave me something to eat. I was thirsty, and you gave me something to drink. I was a stranger, and you welcomed me. 36 I was naked, and you clothed me. I was sick, and you took care of me. I was in prison, and you visited me.’

    The gospel of that Jesus was apart of what was prepared from the foundation of the
    world. The eternal gospel is the only one God has given us. I don't see there being more
    than one, but the same one going through different periods of time or dispensations of
    man.
  5. Standard membersonship
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    22 Sep '15 16:192 edits
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    So you think there are two different gospels?
    Good question, And it is one that I contemplated long, long, before adopting a full fledged acceptance of this interpretation.

    Don't think I am not aware of Paul's cursing upon anyone, including an angel, who would preach another Gospel (Galatians 1:9) beside what he preached.

    It is not a different Gospel in that it is a preaching of a "different Jesus". It is a different gospel in that it is preached not by humans but supernaturally from the air by an angel (perhaps angels).

    This footnote from the Recovery Version has persuaded me.

    "The eternal gospel, which will be preached during the time of the great tribulation (Matt. 24:21) differs from the gospel of grace (Acts 20:24) preached in the church age. The basic contents of the gospel of grace are repentance unto God and faith in the Lord Jesus (Acts 20:21) that men may be forgiven of their sins and be born again as the children of God (Luke 24:47; John 1:12); whereas the basic content of the eternal gospel is that men should fear God and worship God that they may not be deceived and follow Antichrist but may be brought back to the genuine worship of God, who made heaven and earth (v.7). Only man is privileged to preach the gospel of grace on the earth today (Acts 10:3-6). But the eternal gospel will be preached by the angel in the air at the close of this age."


    [Footnote 6(1), of Revelation 14:6, Recovery Version, Living Stream Ministry]

    The word "vs" or "verses" might better be thought of as "differs".
    For certainly a presentation of the Gospel of Grace includes that God is the Creator as well, though its focus is on the redemptive work of the Son of God.

    Comment ?
  6. Standard membersonship
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    22 Sep '15 16:363 edits
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    Matthew 25:34-36
    34 “Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who have been blessed by my Father! Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world, 35 because I was hungry, and you gave me something to eat. I was thirsty, and you gave me something to drink. I was a stranger, and you welcomed me. 36 I was naked, and you clothed me. I was sick, and you took care of me. I was in prison, and you visited me.’

    The gospel of that Jesus was apart of what was prepared from the foundation of the world. The eternal gospel is the only one God has given us. I don't see there being more than one, but the same one going through different periods of time or dispensations of
    man.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    What Matt. 25:34 says is for the saved sheep to inherit the kingdom prepared for them from the world's foundation.

    "Then the King will say to those on His right hand, Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world."


    I agree that the Gospel of Christ was preached from the foundation of the world, particularly in the symbolism of God's redeeming in the fall of Adam and Eve.

    It says that the kingdom was prepared from the foundation of the world to the created man. A kingdom was prepared for Adam and Eve and their descendants before they fell into sin. But it was prepared for them.

    I would like you to comment on a few aspects of the Matthew passage:

    1.) Notice that Jesus only says 'blessed of MY FATHER". He did not mention that this was THEIR Father.

    2.) Concerning the millennial kingdom Jesus did say the righteous would shine in the kingdom of "their Father".

    "Then the righteous will shine forth like the sun in the kingdom of their Father." (Matt. 13:43)


    We also know that the overcoming saints will reign in the kingdom over the nations as co-kings with Christ.

    Do you think they will reign over each other ?
    There must be some left on earth over which they will reign.
    Think about it.

    Some will be living on earth during the great tribulation who must be transferred from this age into the next kingdom age. And these are said to inherit the kingdom prepared from the creation's foundation, meaning the time of Adam and Eve. And that before they fell into sin.

    Sons of God, for whom God is their Father, will co-reign over transferred nations (sheep) who are not born again. But they are saved and enter into the state of Adam was before he fell.
  7. Standard memberKellyJay
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    22 Sep '15 16:51
    Originally posted by sonship
    [b] Matthew 25:34-36
    34 “Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who have been blessed by my Father! Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world, 35 because I was hungry, and you gave me something to eat. I was thirsty, and you gave me something to drink. I was a stranger, and you welcomed me. 36 I was naked, and ...[text shortened]... who are not born again. But they are saved and enter into the state of Adam was before he fell.
    I think you are splitting hairs so small you are seeing things that are not there.
    If you have to do that to see it, I'd submit it isn't worth working out the differences.
  8. Standard membersonship
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    22 Sep '15 16:591 edit
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    I think you are splitting hairs so small you are seeing things that are not there.
    If you have to do that to see it, I'd submit it isn't worth working out the differences.
    I think you are splitting hairs so small you are seeing things that are not there.
    If you have to do that to see it, I'd submit it isn't worth working out the differences.


    Thankyou for your respected opinion brother.
    But I will do some more splitting because some may just see that it makes perfect sense, glorifies God, and helps in understanding the overall picture of what the Bible teaches.

    But if you wish to dismiss the discussion as not pertinent to the main proclamation of the Christian Gospel, I would not argue about that.

    Of course a Universalist would think speaking of a resurrection of Jesus or not might be "splitting hairs" as well.

    It depends often on what is important to you.
  9. Standard membersonship
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    22 Sep '15 17:20
    So if some find better things to talk about I will continue.

    The sons of God inherit that which was BEFORE the foundation of the world - Ephesians 1:4. But the reigned over nations enjoy that which was prepared for them FROM the foundation of the world (Matt. 25:34).

    That man would possess the divine life of God was His eternal purpose before the foundation of the world.

    From the time of Adam's creation the good earth was to be the place of God's kingdom for the created man.

    Here we can see that SONSHIP was the eternal plan in the heart of God before the creation of the universe.
    \
    "Even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and without blemish before Him in love,

    Predestinating us unto sonship through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will. " (Eph. 1:4-5)


    This plan of God stretches back before God created the universe. This is strongly implied in the phrase "before the foundation of the world". In other words BASED upon God's plan in His heart to have sons who share His divine life and nature, He created everything.

    The kingdom prepared FROM the foundation of the world pertains to a man unregenerated but created "very good" who has not yet partaken of the tree of life, to enjoy the blessings of a wonderful creation.

    The sons of the Father in the millennial kingdom, who participate in God's eternal purpose will reign for 1,000 years over the nations healed, restored, and brought back to the situation of created man who was "very good".

    Such a man was Adam - not born of God yet, innocent, neutral, and placed in a Paradise. He was placed before the tree of life which signified God entering into man to mingle and unite with man for His eternal purpose.

    We might be helped to see this eternal gospel to fear God the Creator instead of worshipping the Antichrist, when we consider Romans 1.

    There Paul says no man is with excuse not to realize God as the Creator.

    "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven upon all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who hold down the truth in unrighteousness.

    Because that which is known of God is manifest within them, for God manifested it to them.

    For the invisible things of Him, both His eternal power and divine characteristics, have been clearly seen since the creation of the world, being perceived by the things made, so that they would be without excuse." (Rom. 1:18-20)


    It helps to consider this passage in light of an eternal gospel preached by the angel during the darkest times of the great tribulation. God is shaking the cosmos. Divine judgment is on the horizon. Yet much of mankind is being led astray into the most heinous idolatry of a man - Antichrist, who has the arrogance to proclaim himself as God.

    Romans 1 helps me to understand the drastic need for the supernaturally proclaimed eternal gospel during the very last three and one half years just before the second coming of Christ.

    There seems a reinforcement of the truth of God as Creator Who alone is to be thanked and worshiped for this world.
  10. SubscriberSuzianne
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    22 Sep '15 17:28
    Originally posted by sonship
    This is not the first time I talked about this.

    At the end of this age, in the darkest times of the great tribulation, [b]"an eternal gospel"
    will be announced supernaturally by an angel. This gospel - this "eternal gospel" is different from the gospel preached all during the church age by the apostles and Christian evangelism.

    The shee ...[text shortened]... not mentioned. Yet it is a "good news". Yet it is a gospel of an "eternal" significance.[/b]
    Perhaps it just means one final chance to "choose wisely"?
  11. Standard membersonship
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    22 Sep '15 17:34
    The saved sheep are the people living on earth at the time of the coming of Christ, who responded to the eternal gospel.

    The condemned goats are the people who followed Antichrist to persecute the Christian LEFT on earth after the secret rapture and the Jews on earth.

    The age is in transition. The age is turning.

    And in this transition an eternal announcement is to take place while the creation is being turned upside down by calamities which science will not be able to explain.

    The wise will perceive that judgment of God is upon the world.

    The persecuted people are those who comprise the Lord's brothers down to even the least of them.

    The people of earth, whether sympathetic or persecuting, will be examined by Christ as to how they treated these brothers of His during that time of the great tribulation.

    Those without the mark of the beast will not be able to buy or sell. And they will be hounded, sick, imprisoned, refugees, killed, etc.

    Somehow, a polarization will occur. Some living earth dwellers will recognize the injustice of such people being so treated. And some will follow Antichrist to consider them a nuisance, the dregs of society.

    The heightened resentment of theism and the Christian faith in particular is the preview and prelude to this coming intolerance of believers in God. We can see the rising resentment of Christians in Europe preparing the way for the Antichrist.

    Some on the fence today will possibly have to make up their minds to assist the Devil to totally RID the earth of believers. And some will receive the fear of God, listen to their concience and assist the people scattered, persecuted, killed, imprisoned for their faith in Christ and their belief in Yahweh.

    All religions will be put down as Antichrist exalts himself against all that is worshipped. Against this background is the prophecy of Matt. 25:31-46.

    When Paul persecuted the church he was made to realize the he was actually persecuting Jesus Christ HIMSELF - "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute ME?"

    In a similar manner Christ having come down to Jerusalem to reign over the earth will point out that as you treated even the least of His brothers, you treated Himself.
  12. Standard memberKellyJay
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    22 Sep '15 17:58
    Originally posted by sonship
    I think you are splitting hairs so small you are seeing things that are not there.
    If you have to do that to see it, I'd submit it isn't worth working out the differences.


    Thankyou for your respected opinion brother.
    But I will do some more splitting because some may just see that it makes perfect sense, glorifies God, and help ...[text shortened]... us or not might be "splitting hairs" as well.

    It depends often on what is important to you.
    Please split away, I've given my opinion you of course are free to do as you will.
    I don't see this as adding or taking away from anything, but if you feel it is important than
    it is to you.
  13. Standard membersonship
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    23 Sep '15 08:003 edits
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    Please split away, I've given my opinion you of course are free to do as you will.
    I don't see this as adding or taking away from anything, but if you feel it is important than
    it is to you.
    The passage on Matthew 25:31-46 has been much used in a humanitarian fashion. Followers of Jesus are to do to those in need. There doing is as to Jesus Himself.

    Do not misunderstand me. I think there is a good principle here in this kind of borrowing. That is application of that passage. Here I am more interested in interpretation of the passage. It is a prophecy.

    But strictly speaking it is a prophesy. It is a prediction of something that will take place at a certain time. And it should really be understood in its prophetic context. How will Jesus judge the nations who pass through that great tribulation ?

    To some I think it is important that they see what the prophecy is about specifically.

    "But WHEN the Son of Man comes in His glory and all the angels with Him, AT THAT TIME He will sit on the throne of His glory." (25:31)


    This is prophecy about His coming immediately after the great tribulation at the commencement of the millennial kingdom. This is prophecy about His setting up His throne in the Holy Land. This is prophecy about His dealing with those LIVING on the earth at the time of His second coming. This is His judgment of the nations which pass through the tribulation.

    This is not the same judgment as the great white throne judgment AFTER the millennium upon the DEAD in Revelation 20.
  14. Standard membersonship
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    23 Sep '15 17:022 edits
    What is hard for some to accept in Matthew 25:31-46 is that good works done to the needy appear to be the cause of entering into eternal life.

    I admit that it does cause some hesitation to accept that these sheep seem never to have heard of Jesus.

    "Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, Lord, when havewe seen You hungry and have fed You, or thirsty and have given You a drink? And when have we seen You a stranger and have taken You in, or naked and have clothed You?" (v.36,37)


    During the great tribulation the Christian left on the earth and the elect Jews form the brothers of Christ. Antichrist will terribly persecute them.

    We know that some people during that time will give glory to God the Creator in light of supernatural calamities. How do I know?

    "And in that hour there was a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and seven thousand men were killed in the earthquake, and the rest became terrified AND GAVE GLORY TO THE GOD OF HEAVEN." (Rev. 11:13)


    This is at the harshest times of the last three and one half year great tribulation, within or just after the forty two months (Rev. 11:2) .
    Apparently, some peoples will not be so hardened as to follow Antichrist and his false prophet into damnation. These who have the sense to realize God is judging will not go along with the program to persecute the harassed the Christian and elect Jews.

    Though they may not understand much, and though they may have been deprived of knowledge about Jesus Christ, their God given conscience kicks in.

    When the Son of God comes down to the earth, they will see that these harassed people, unable to buy, unable to sell, unable to eat, unable to get medical care or to escape, down to the least of them were so closely relate to the Son of God.

    The hardened under Antichrist will consider these people as a public enemies to the world order. The dream of Richard Dawkins types will be put into action to exterminate or wear out the saints of God.

    The people responding to the signs of judgment and giving glory to the God who alone causes such calamities in the cosmos, will listen to their conscience. At that time they will give a cup of assistance to the prophet and therefore receive a prophet's reward.

    " He who receives a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward, and he who receives a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward.

    And whoever gives to one of these little ones only a cup of cold water to drink in the name of a disciple, truly I say to you, he shall by no means lose his reward." (Matt. 10:41,42)


    My opinion is at this point that this passage is fulfilled in that time when the "sheep" of the nations assist the least of the Lord's brothers left on earth in the time of the great tribulation.

    " And the King will answer and say to them, Truly I say to you, Inasmich as you have done it to one of these, the least of My brothers, you have done it to Me." (Matt. 25:40)


    IN a future post I will write something about a difference I see between eternal life entering INTO man and man entering INTO eternal life.
  15. Standard membersonship
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    23 Sep '15 17:431 edit
    Does anyone have related and substantive questions. comments, pushbacks, scrutinizings ?

    KellyJay? You're not going to let me get away that easy are you ?
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