Eternal One

Originally posted by @sonship
I began my reply to one poster with saying that the bible is not always that simple. This is true.

So you have to consider when you assert one side of the whole revelation of God to the supression of another side.

On one hand I agree - God is eternally self sufficient, self-existing and in need of nothing from us His creation. But there is another ...[text shortened]... sent of His creature man to do them.

It is not too much to say that God is in need of this.

The Word becoming flesh is Jesus becoming one of us, His deity wasn't removed, the
demons knew who He was and screamed it out. But had He done anything as God, the
whole point of being the Son of Man would have been gone. While alive as one of us He
suffered every temptation we suffered, yet without sin. The position He took was the one
that Adam had and failed in.

It is the position we were born into while yet sinners, But God's grace and mercy saved
us from being dead from our trespasses and sins.

God is, the great IM, He didn't change, He never became less than that, His nature is
intact, was intact, and always will be. Suggesting He needs, still is suggesting He
changed from being the only one ever to be self sufficient to not being so.

Originally posted by @divegeester
No. Jesus was a human being as well as spiritually divine. He was physically weak, sorrowful, mournful, open to temptation etc. His "need" for someone to carry his cross cannot be extrapolated into a deeper meaning than physical weakness through sheer physical exhaustion. Don't overthink it.

God needed to reveal himself in Christ. He does not need us for this.
He loves us, yes.

I commend you on a reasonable answer minus a lot of ... other stuff.

God needed to reveal Himself in Christ, you say.
So God needed.

Christ needs the church to reveal this matter.
The church is the pillar and base of the truth (1 Timothy 3:15).
This is related to the Husbandman's need to prune the abiding branches in the True Vine.
It is one organic entity that He needs to be growing and fruitful in John 15.

God is recovering the proper expression of the church for this need of His.

Originally posted by @sonship
I think that I have seen something further here.

But at the moment you could think about it and tell me how you feel.

God [b]in Christ needed a drink in John chapter 4.
God in Christ needed someone to assist Him to carry the cross too. (Luke 23:26)

That was in absolutely no way - God as the Word become flesh and tabernacleing among us, having a need ?[/b]

God doesn't need.
The Son of man needed something to drink, got tired, sufferer pain, sorrow, heart break,
and at the end of His life, became sin for us. Jesus was led by the Spirit, and went about so the Father could use Him.

Matthew 4:1
Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.

John 5:20
For the Father loves the Son and shows him all that he himself is doing. And greater works than these will he show him, so that you may marvel.

John 5:36
But the testimony that I have is greater than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to accomplish, the very works that I am doing, bear witness about me that the Father has sent me.

John 10:38
but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.”

Our relationship with God is supposed to be like this too, the Spirit of God leading us,
guiding us, teaching us, and we do the works our Father has for us to do. Without the
Spirit of God within us, we remain dead in our trespasses, and sins.

Originally posted by @sonship

I agree 🙂

Originally posted by @kellyjay
The Word becoming flesh is Jesus becoming one of us, His deity wasn't removed, the
demons knew who He was and screamed it out. But had He done anything as God, the
whole point of being the Son of Man would have been gone. While alive as one of us He
suffered every temptation we suffered, yet without sin. The position He took was the one
that Adam had a ...[text shortened]... ll is suggesting He
changed from being the only one ever to be self sufficient to not being so.

I appreciate your good paragraphs there.

The Bible is not always simple to understand.
Its statements must be held in higher regard than some creed which may be helpful yet limited.

So I would you to help me out with three questions:

1. Should I believe that the Word was God ?

2.) Should I believe that the Word who was God became flesh ?

3.) Should I believe after the Word became flesh He took upon Himself something that He did not have before ?

( Otherwise there would be no need for Him to BECOME something. )

We cannot suppress the plain words of the revelation of the Scripture because it troubles some creeds. The creeds are helpful. But they are limited.

The last Adam became a life giving Spirit (1 Cor. 15:45) .
Does God need us to live in and by the life giving Holy Spirit - Christ in another form ?

Originally posted by @sonship
I appreciate your good paragraphs there.

The Bible is not always simple to understand.
Its statements must be held in higher regard than some creed which may be helpful yet limited.

So I would you to help me out with three questions:

1. Should I believe that the Word was God ?

2.) Should I believe that the Word who was God became flesh ...[text shortened]... /b].
Does God need us to live in and by the life giving Holy Spirit - Christ in another form ?

You don't have to believe anything.

The scripture states things as is, it doesn't lay out why you should believe it, you either do
or not. So when it says that in the beginning God, accept it or reject it, that is not an
argument but a statement of fact.

So when scriptures says, the Word was God, accept it or not.
So when scriptures says, the Word became flesh, accept it or not.

If you reject scripture as real as is, you then turn this discussion into one like, is Harry
Potter a better wizard than Gandalf.

Originally posted by @sonship
I appreciate your good paragraphs there.

The Bible is not always simple to understand.
Its statements must be held in higher regard than some creed which may be helpful yet limited.

So I would you to help me out with three questions:

1. Should I believe that the Word was God ?

2.) Should I believe that the Word who was God became flesh ...[text shortened]... /b].
Does God need us to live in and by the life giving Holy Spirit - Christ in another form ?

Everything in the universe needs God, God does not need the universe.
God holds it all together by the power of His Word, He isn't putting His hand on His side
stopping the bleeding because now He has a need.

Originally posted by @sonship
I appreciate your good paragraphs there.

The Bible is not always simple to understand.
Its statements must be held in higher regard than some creed which may be helpful yet limited.

So I would you to help me out with three questions:

1. Should I believe that the Word was God ?

2.) Should I believe that the Word who was God became flesh ...[text shortened]... /b].
Does God need us to live in and by the life giving Holy Spirit - Christ in another form ?

The last Adam became a life giving Spirit (1 Cor. 15:45) .
Does God need us to live in and by the life giving Holy Spirit - Christ in another form ?[/b]

Yes, if you do not have God's Spirit, you do not belong to God.

Originally posted by @kellyjay
You don't have to believe anything.

The scripture states things as is, it doesn't lay out why you should believe it, you either do
or not. So when it says that in the beginning God, accept it or reject it, that is not an
argument but a statement of fact.

So when scriptures says, the Word was God, accept it or not.
So when scriptures says, the Word ...[text shortened]... is, you then turn this discussion into one like, is Harry
Potter a better wizard than Gandalf.

So then I believe the Word Who is God became flesh then God incarnate as a man was thirsty and required a drink from a Samaritan woman.

" ... Jesus therefore, being wearied from the journey sat by the well, it was about the sixth hour, ... There came a woman of samaria to draw water. Jesus said to her,

Give Me something to drink." (John 4:6b,7)

The Word became flesh and tabercacled among us (John 1:14).

Of course the woman needed the living water that He was going to give her, the Spirit and eternal life -

"Jesus answered and said to her, If you knew the gift of God and who it is who says to you, Give Me a drink, you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water. " (v.10)

This living water turns out ultimately to be Jesus Christ Himself in His form as "life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)

We are told by the Word become flesh that "God is Spirit".

"But an hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truthfulness, for the Father also seeks such to worship Him. God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truthfuness." (vs. 23,24)

The sinful and "thirsty" Samaritan woman no doubt needed the Triune God very badly - for salvation and for satisfaction. But the Triune God and Christ as God incarnate needed something for His eternal purpose. He needed to dispense Himself into her innermost being to be a fountain of divine life gushing up into eternal life as the Spirit.

"Jesus answered and said to her, Everyone who drinks of this water shall thirst again. But whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall by no means thirst forever; but the water that I will give him will become in him a fountain of water gushing up into eternal life." (vs. 14,15)

The Triune God is seen in this chapter - the Father seeking worship in the human spirit, the Son as a thirsty man, for the woman said 'Come see a man ... " (v.29), and the Holy Spirit dispensing the Father and the Son into the human beings [b]" God is Spirit" the living water of eternal life installed as a fountain in forgiven sinners.

The Triune God for His dispensing of Himself into man is seen in this chapter. And not only for the sinner's much needed salvation, but also for the need of the Triune God to accomplish His purpose.

The evangelist John tells the story with the strong implication that the encounter with the Samaritan woman brought much needed satisfaction to the Son of God.

This is hinted at in verses 31-34.

"In the meantime, the disciples urged Him, saying, Rabbi, eat.

But He said to them, I have food to eat that you do not know about ... Jesus said to them, My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me and to finish His work." (vs. 31,32,34)

Physically and metaphysically the Word Who was God and Who became flesh, needed and was satisfied meeting that need.

Now let me say something for your viewpoint a bit Kelly.
God is Father and Son and Holy Spirit.

In a real sense I could not push too far that the Father needed a drink of water.
But the Father was involved with the Son of Man, the Son of God needing a drink of water.

I said about twice already that the Bible is not always easy to understand.
So if you say "The Father in the Triune God did not need that well water."
I would agree that this is how we best think of the matter.

But the Father was involved in the need of the incarnate Son of God.
Does this somewhat meet you maybe halfway ?

But having said that, please notice that the Father SEEKS. He wants something very much - for man to drink of the living water of the Spirit as true worship of God.

"... the Father seeks such to worship Him." (v.24a)

Originally posted by @sonship
Now let me say something for your viewpoint a bit Kelly.
God is Father and Son and Holy Spirit.

In a real sense I could not push too far that the [b] Father needed a drink of water.
But the Father was involved with the Son of Man, the Son of God needing a drink of water.

I said about twice already that the Bible is not always easy to u ...[text shortened]... orship of God.

"... the Father seeks such to worship Him." (v.24a)

[/b]

I'm not going to continue this.
I think you are reaching here, God does not require *need* people to worship Him.
Those that do will be required to do it in Spirit and truth, because otherwise it is the flesh.

Originally posted by @kellyjay
I'm not going to continue this.
I think you are reaching here, God does not require *need* people to worship Him.
Those that do will be required to do it in Spirit and truth, because otherwise it is the flesh.

Next time you read about the offerings in Leviticus which are mostly types of Christ, take note of how often it mentions that part of them was food for God.

Just notice. That's all I suggest.
Ask "How much of this offering was for God's satisfaction or God's consumption?"

And you might ask "Why does the Holy Spirit portray here that a part of the offering was for God's satisfaction ?"

Agape

Originally posted by @sonship
God needed to reveal Himself in Christ, you say.
So God needed.

God needed to reveal himself through Christ, so what! God doesn't need us. What is it with you?

More waffle.

Originally posted by @kellyjay
I'm not going to continue this.
I think you are reaching here, God does not require *need* people to worship Him.
Those that do will be required to do it in Spirit and truth, because otherwise it is the flesh.

I'm with you, it's a parody of debate.