1. Standard memberKellyJay
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    09 Sep '17 11:373 edits
    Eternal One

    For one who is eternal, who doesn’t change, who made all things not
    Himself, who sustains it all by the power of His Word, He does not need
    anything from us. We on the other hand are totally and completely
    dependent upon Him, there is nothing we can do to add to Him. We
    cannot give to Him anything He hasn’t made, if He wanted more of
    anything He could just make it. He gives us our being, He setup the
    universe we live in and keeps it running in a somewhat predictable
    manner. So, what could we do to obligate God to do what we want?

    His ways are above our ways, since He is eternal in scope, there was
    never a time where God wasn’t just as He is now, and will be, the same
    yesterday, today, and forever more. There was never a time He did not
    know all, that He wasn’t all powerful, where He was not aware of the smallest
    particle, to how each relates to the entire creation, He knows all there is.
    He sustains our being, giving us life, maintaining the universe, we are
    totally and completely dependent upon Him.

    With one so grand in scope, our very reason for being is only with our
    creator. What is God up to, why did He create this place, form us in our
    mother’s wombs? Scripture teaches us that what is to come is so far
    beyond us now it has not entered the heart of man, and that the suffering
    in this world pales in comparison to what is to come.

    So, what is man that God cares, what does he want from us?

    Micah 6:8
    He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

    Matthew 11:29
    Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.

    His two great commands where all others rest are simply to do what?

    Luke 10:27
    He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”

    We cannot offer Him anything, we can accept what He gives, in the
    rebellion of man when we fell away the desire to know good and evil in
    part became our down fall. So now we choose to declare what we want
    to be good and evil, regardless of what God says and has declared. Our
    rebellion we set ourselves apart from God, we tell Him what is good and
    evil, we tell Him what we find is acceptable behavior from Him, even
    though He is sovereign we consider Him someone to oppose and resist,
    or take His grace by admitting to our sins and turning from them so we
    can say yes Lord, your will be done.
  2. Standard membervivify
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    09 Sep '17 12:11
    Originally posted by @kellyjay
    Eternal One

    For one who is eternal, who doesn’t change, who made all things not
    Himself, who sustains it all by the power of His Word, He does not need
    anything from us.
    It can be argued that God needs worship. Worship and glory are paramount motivations for things God does in the bible. He even has angels ceaseless shouting "Holy!" day and night.
  3. Standard membersonship
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    09 Sep '17 12:29
    Originally posted by @kellyjay
    Eternal One

    For one who is eternal, who doesn’t change, who made all things not
    Himself, who sustains it all by the power of His Word, He does not need
    anything from us. We on the other hand are totally and completely
    dependent upon Him, there is nothing we can do to add to Him. We
    cannot give to Him anything He hasn’t made, if He wanted more of
    an ...[text shortened]... grace by admitting to our sins and turning from them so we
    can say yes Lord, your will be done.
    I think there is another side.
    God needs you.

    He was lonely like a bachelor in eternity past.
    The Bible closes with a marriage of the Triune God with His people.

    Can we say that a marriage is completely representative of someone with no need, no desire, no intention to be completed ?

    As the greatest life God must have the greatest need.
    Let's have a fellowship about it.

    God had a need for a creature to side with Him against another creature that had rebelled. Sure, unilaterally God could have wiped Satan out by Himself with no help.
    But He chose not to do so. He chose that another creature would put down the rebellious creature.

    Didn't God then, in some sense express His need for something ?
  4. Standard memberKellyJay
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    09 Sep '17 12:30
    Originally posted by @vivify
    It can be argued that God needs worship. Worship and glory are paramount motivations for things God does in the bible. He even has angels ceaseless shouting "Holy!" day and night.
    You have some way to prove He needs it?
    He deserves it, that is not the same thing.
  5. Standard memberKellyJay
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    09 Sep '17 12:31
    Originally posted by @sonship
    I think there is another side.
    God needs you.

    He was lonely like a bachelor in eternity past.
    The Bible closes with a marriage of the Triune God with His people.

    Can we say that a marriage is completely representative of someone with no need, no desire, no intention to be completed ?

    As the greatest life God must have the greatest need.
    L ...[text shortened]... n the rebellious creature.

    Didn't God then, in some sense express His need for something ?
    No, God does not need me, He does not need you, or anyone else!

    He wants you and everyone else, that is not the same thing.
  6. Standard memberKellyJay
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    09 Sep '17 12:35
    Originally posted by @sonship
    I think there is another side.
    God needs you.

    He was lonely like a bachelor in eternity past.
    The Bible closes with a marriage of the Triune God with His people.

    Can we say that a marriage is completely representative of someone with no need, no desire, no intention to be completed ?

    As the greatest life God must have the greatest need.
    L ...[text shortened]... n the rebellious creature.

    Didn't God then, in some sense express His need for something ?
    God was, is, and will be the same. There was never a time God didn't sustain Himself,
    there was never a time, God was not complete in Himself. Do not lower God into some
    thing He is not. He is the sure foundation, where we can go, because there is nothing that
    can cause Him to be anything other than what He is. He wants us so we are here, He
    died for us, because have a need, He is the giver of our life, our salvation, He calls us out
    by name there is nothing we bring to the table to make Him do anything.

    His love and the honesty of His Word is why we are alive, and have the right to become
    children of the most High.
  7. Standard membersonship
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    09 Sep '17 12:36
    Originally posted by @vivify
    It can be argued that God needs worship. Worship and glory are paramount motivations for things God does in the bible. He even has angels ceaseless shouting "Holy!" day and night.
    It can be argued that God needs worship. Worship and glory are paramount motivations for things God does in the bible. He even has angels ceaseless shouting "Holy!" day and night.


    Do you see God having a need in the death of Christ ?

    I mean the way Christ steadfastly set His face to go to Jerusalem to be crucified. He saw it as the need of His Father that could not be avoided.

    Did you ever consider that God had a need to do something to save you from yourself as a transgressor of His laws? Do you see God has having an urgent need that our guilty selves be justified before Him ?
  8. Standard memberKellyJay
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    09 Sep '17 12:401 edit
    Originally posted by @sonship
    It can be argued that God needs worship. Worship and glory are paramount motivations for things God does in the bible. He even has angels ceaseless shouting "Holy!" day and night.


    Do you see God having a need in the death of Christ ?

    I mean the way Christ steadfastly set His face to go to Jerusalem to be crucified. He saw it as the ...[text shortened]... laws? Do you see God has having an urgent need that our guilty selves be justified before Him ?
    No, I again completely disagree!

    Need means there is something not complete, so something is required.
    God is complete as is, and always has been and always will be.
    He is love, so He acts out of love, not need.
    You can look around and see people acting out of need, they can do all manner of evil.
    With God He can never be tempted with evil, because He is complete.(Holy)
  9. SubscriberFMF
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    09 Sep '17 12:43
    Originally posted by @sonship
    I think there is another side.
    God needs you.
    He was lonely like a bachelor in eternity past.
    You believe god experiences, perceives and is subject to time in the same way as humans are?
  10. Standard membersonship
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    09 Sep '17 12:49
    Originally posted by @kellyjay
    No, God does not need me, He does not need you, or anyone else!

    He wants you and everyone else, that is not the same thing.
    No, God does not need me, He does not need you, or anyone else!


    Are you sure about that ?


    He wants you and everyone else, that is not the same thing.


    There is a danger of seeing it as a Moslem would see Allah.
    They know nothing of God wanting to come into man to be life to man.
    They know nothing of the incarnated God-man having a Wife and a Bride in the climax of history.

    New Jerusalem is a need that God has.
    That is why He wouldn't stop or give up His eternal purpose no matter what obstacles or opposition was mounted against Him.

    There is another side to this matter.
    Yes, God is self existing and ever existing, All sufficient.

    But He seems to have a good pleasure of His will (Ephesians 1:5)

    "Predestinating us unto sonship through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will."


    Now when Adam threw it all away and joined the opposition party against God, God did not shrug and say - "I don't care. i have NO NEED."

    We are monotheists as Christians.
    We are not Moslems though.
  11. Standard memberKellyJay
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    09 Sep '17 12:55
    Originally posted by @sonship
    It can be argued that God needs worship. Worship and glory are paramount motivations for things God does in the bible. He even has angels ceaseless shouting "Holy!" day and night.


    Do you see God having a need in the death of Christ ?

    I mean the way Christ steadfastly set His face to go to Jerusalem to be crucified. He saw it as the ...[text shortened]... laws? Do you see God has having an urgent need that our guilty selves be justified before Him ?
    I think you elevate man way beyond what we are, by saying God needs us. When God
    was speaking once, didn't He say if He wanted He could create sons of Abraham out of
    rocks? As I said, if He wanted something He could create it, but that is not the same thing
    as need. Something is missing, if there is a need, something is required if there is a need,
    and a changeless God who does not change is good as is, nothing required.

    He is worthy to be praised so He is, He loves us so He draws us to Him, He doesn't not
    require anything we can give Him, it already all belongs to Him. We cannot make Him
    love us by our actions, we cannot make Him do anything, by anything we say and do, but
    He does care, and out of His compassion He moves us so we can have fellowship with
    Him.

    There is no deal we can bring to the table to force God's hand, our place is to accept Him
    as is, love and obey Him, because He should be loved and obeyed. His ways are not like
    ours, He sees clearly without the fog of needs and desires, His view is always love, and
    justice, and with Him is all glory and power. So how could He need us? We need Him,
    in Him we have our being, He gives and takes away, all for His purpose, not His needs.
  12. Standard membersonship
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    09 Sep '17 12:58
    Originally posted by @fmf
    You believe god experiences, perceives and is subject to time in the same way as humans are?
    He can and more.
    He sees what we see but He sees infinitely more.

    Eternal life means to me not just endless duration.
    It mean a quality of life that is without limit.

    Look at creation. God must master processes so minute as on a quantum level taking billionths of second. Yet He also masters processes which take billions years and of immense size.

    He sees it all.
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    09 Sep '17 12:59
    Originally posted by @vivify
    It can be argued that God needs worship. Worship and glory are paramount motivations for things God does in the bible. He even has angels ceaseless shouting "Holy!" day and night.
    It can be argued? Of cpurse it can but what does that mean? It means people disagree but the truth is not dependent on who believes it.
  14. SubscriberFMF
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    09 Sep '17 13:04
    Originally posted by @sonship
    He can and more.
    He sees what we see but He sees infinitely more.

    Eternal life means to me not just endless duration.
    It mean a quality of life that is without limit.

    Look at creation. God must master processes so minute as on a quantum level taking billionths of second. Yet He also masters processes which take billions years and of immense size.

    He sees it all.
    I think you have missed the point. Do you believe god experiences, perceives and is subject to time in the same way as humans are and he therefore actually feels the same mixture of emotion and impatience and yearning - loneliness - as humans do, as a result of the sensation of time passing slowly?
  15. Standard memberKellyJay
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    09 Sep '17 13:05
    Originally posted by @sonship
    No, God does not need me, He does not need you, or anyone else!


    Are you sure about that ?


    He wants you and everyone else, that is not the same thing.


    There is a danger of seeing it as a Moslem would see Allah.
    They know nothing of God wanting to come into man to be life to man.
    They know nothing ...[text shortened]... don't care. i have NO NEED."

    We are monotheists as Christians.
    We are not Moslems though.
    You are again lowering God to a level of human faults. If you need something like we
    need water and food, that than shows we are not complete on our own. With hold food
    and water we die. God being eternal and unchanging in the past, present, and future will
    not be all altered by having us in His life where He changes into something more. That
    would mean He is forming even now, and we know that isn't true according to scripture.

    So yes, I'm quite sure that neither you or I are required by God, but even with our faults
    and He loves us. He has a will that He will accomplish with or without us, He desires us
    to be apart of that, but that again is not a need. Show me a verse where God says He
    needs anything from anyone, including angels! You may see people and angles acting
    in ways towards God, with honor and praise, but again is He not worthy of both? That
    isn't fulfilling a need, that is just doing what is right.
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