1. Joined
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    13 Sep '09 21:02
    OK. Let's just say, for the sake of discussion, that once upon a time trillions of years ago, aside from picturing God creating matter, all physical matter was concentrated in one area and due to the forces and nature of that matter it exploded and the result was what presently exists.

    Now I realise I could have worded it differently, but I'm leading into what it is I really want to get at.

    Somewhere in the past, and it makes no difference when, certain elements collided and congealed into that which we call living things.

    How am I doing so far?

    Anyway, this is what puzzles me. If life came from matter or energy, now remember I'm talking about living things and not merely things made of the substance of matter such as rock or light, did not the organising (evolution) of those elements need to follow some kind of harmonising structuring program in order to successfully generate life?

    That's my first question.

    If so, then why would it not BE that all living things evolve in a balanced and harmonious way?

    I ask that in light of the idea, in my view, living things, especially mammals, are not in harmony, but are in fact in a state of upheaval.

    Do you see what I'm driving at? How can evolution occur if it does not do so in a harmonious way?

    It seems to me that once some kind of conflict between evolving elements begins to occur it would negate that process for one that builds upon the balance between opposing forces.

    It seems only logical to me. Is what I mean clear?
  2. Maryland
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    13 Sep '09 21:41
    No!
  3. Joined
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    13 Sep '09 21:441 edit
    Originally posted by josephw
    OK. Let's just say, for the sake of discussion, that once upon a time trillions of years ago, aside from picturing God creating matter, all physical matter was concentrated in one area and due to the forces and nature of that matter it exploded and the result was what presently exists.

    Now I realise I could have worded it differently, but I'm leading int the balance between opposing forces.

    It seems only logical to me. Is what I mean clear?
    For one, can you define "harmonising structuring program"? I googled it and got zero hits.

    If so, then why would it not BE that all living things evolve in a balanced and harmonious way?...How can evolution occur if it does not do so in a harmonious way?

    Why is your expectation that it would? Seems to me that for life to survive it only need have an environment that is not so inhospitable so as to not sustain an ongoing population.
  4. Melbourne, Australia
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    13 Sep '09 22:40
    Originally posted by josephw
    OK. Let's just say, for the sake of discussion, that once upon a time trillions of years ago, aside from picturing God creating matter, all physical matter was concentrated in one area and due to the forces and nature of that matter it exploded and the result was what presently exists.

    Now I realise I could have worded it differently, but I'm leading int ...[text shortened]... the balance between opposing forces.

    It seems only logical to me. Is what I mean clear?
    No it's not clear.
    What do you mean by all mammals being a state of upheaval?
  5. Joined
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    13 Sep '09 23:04
    Sounds to me like you are asking what is the organising force of evolutionary construction, when the 2nd law of thermodynamics indicates that due to entropy all matter naturally decays to it's simplest form. (At least I believe it's something like that).

    If that is what you are asking, then I think it's a good question but unfortunately I don't know the answer.
  6. Joined
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    14 Sep '09 00:11
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    For one, can you define "harmonising structuring program"? I googled it and got zero hits.

    [b]If so, then why would it not BE that all living things evolve in a balanced and harmonious way?...How can evolution occur if it does not do so in a harmonious way?


    Why is your expectation that it would? Seems to me that for life to survive it only need have an environment that is not so inhospitable so as to not sustain an ongoing population.[/b]
    "For one, can you define "harmonising structuring program"? I googled it and got zero hits."

    I made it up.

    "Seems to me that for life to survive it only need have an environment that is not so inhospitable so as to not sustain an ongoing population."

    Like the one we're creating for ourselves?

    I think you missed my meaning.
  7. Joined
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    14 Sep '09 00:231 edit
    Originally posted by josephw
    [b]"For one, can you define "harmonising structuring program"? I googled it and got zero hits."

    I made it up.

    "Seems to me that for life to survive it only need have an environment that is not so inhospitable so as to not sustain an ongoing population."

    Like the one we're creating for ourselves?

    I think you missed my meaning.[/b]
    I made it up.

    I suspected as much, so don't you think you should define it so that people can understand what you meant by it?

    I think you missed my meaning.

    Then why don't you explain your meaning?

    Based on the responses thus far, what is clear is that what you meant is decidedly unclear. So why don't you clarify instead of giving useless responses?
  8. Joined
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    14 Sep '09 00:29
    Originally posted by amannion
    No it's not clear.
    What do you mean by all mammals being a state of upheaval?
    Evolution began somewhere in time.
    At it's beginning the elements for life began to organise.
    The conditions for the organisation of those elements into life had to be, logically speaking in my opinion, exact. You may not agree.
    Why, then, is nature in a state of violent upheaval?

    What I'm attempting to do is to juxtapose two concepts. The one being, that the idea of evolution, for me at least, carries with it the idea that life should be in a state of harmonious balance, and the other is that life just isn't that way.

    I can't reconcile evolution as the harmonious, peaceful, balanced building of life forms with the conflict that exists in nature, and especially between man and man.
  9. Joined
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    14 Sep '09 00:30
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Sounds to me like you are asking what is the organising force of evolutionary construction, when the 2nd law of thermodynamics indicates that due to entropy all matter naturally decays to it's simplest form. (At least I believe it's something like that).

    If that is what you are asking, then I think it's a good question but unfortunately I don't know the answer.
    I don't know the answer either. At least not yet.
  10. Melbourne, Australia
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    14 Sep '09 00:33
    Originally posted by josephw
    Evolution began somewhere in time.
    At it's beginning the elements for life began to organise.
    The conditions for the organisation of those elements into life had to be, logically speaking in my opinion, exact. You may not agree.
    Why, then, is nature in a state of violent upheaval?

    What I'm attempting to do is to juxtapose two concepts. The one being, ...[text shortened]... g of life forms with the conflict that exists in nature, and especially between man and man.
    What exactly do you mean by life being a state of violent upheaval?

    As for evolution being harmonious, peaceful, and balanced, what makes you think that's how it works?
  11. Joined
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    14 Sep '09 00:40
    Originally posted by amannion
    What exactly do you mean by life being a state of violent upheaval?

    As for evolution being harmonious, peaceful, and balanced, what makes you think that's how it works?
    We're doomed! ๐Ÿ˜‰
  12. Joined
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    14 Sep '09 00:47
    Originally posted by josephw
    Evolution began somewhere in time.
    At it's beginning the elements for life began to organise.
    The conditions for the organisation of those elements into life had to be, logically speaking in my opinion, exact. You may not agree.
    Why, then, is nature in a state of violent upheaval?

    What I'm attempting to do is to juxtapose two concepts. The one being, ...[text shortened]... g of life forms with the conflict that exists in nature, and especially between man and man.
    I believe that the fact that life is not always harmonious and is full of upheaval and threats to survival is the reason evolution takes place. If everything were nice, neat, safe, and harmonious there would be no need for life to evolve. Life evolves to survive and thrive and yes even at the expense of others at times.

    Necessity is the mother of invention. I would also say that perhaps necessity is the mother of evolution.
  13. Subscriberduecer
    anybody seen my
    underpants??
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    14 Sep '09 01:14
    Originally posted by josephw
    OK. Let's just say, for the sake of discussion, that once upon a time trillions of years ago, aside from picturing God creating matter, all physical matter was concentrated in one area and due to the forces and nature of that matter it exploded and the result was what presently exists.

    Now I realise I could have worded it differently, but I'm leading int ...[text shortened]... the balance between opposing forces.

    It seems only logical to me. Is what I mean clear?
    God made ( and is still making) order out of chaos
  14. Standard memberKellyJay
    Walk your Faith
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    14 Sep '09 03:48
    Originally posted by duecer
    God made ( and is still making) order out of chaos
    You believe there is chaos and God?

    Kelly
  15. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
    Brisbane,QLD
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    14 Sep '09 03:581 edit
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    You believe there is chaos and God?

    Kelly
    I do...(chaos on this level-harmony and balance on higher ones๐Ÿ™‚ )
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