Expressions of faith

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
Well that's just risible. If you abandon the use of your critical faculties on the strength of a few lines of ancient scripture... well, that sounds pretty foolish to me.

Come on Cat ,the only way you can be a person of faith is to abandon reason.

Come on Cat ,the only way you can be a person of faith is to abandon reason.

That is ridiculous.

I reason that the Person of Jesus is believable.
I reason that the human imagination would not if it could concoct such a Person as a fictional character.

I reason that not one atheist or agnostic has ever shown me that if I drop my faith in Christ I would be better off with their philosophy.

I reason that no skeptic on this board as a CLUE why they exist, where they came from, and where their destiny lies. And most of them get peeved if you ask them.

I reason that a book written over 1600 years by 40 different totally diverse authors with such a common unifying scheme has the hallmarks of a communication from God to man.

I reason that I do need forgiveness for my actual sins which incurred actual guilt which actually need some form of rectification. I reason that no one like Jesus Christ provides such peaceful resolution of that conscience problem in such a deep and effective way.

I reason that the past years of living unto my sinful cravings was ENOUGH. Maybe there is a better way to live in knowing and following Christ.

I have plenty of reasons. I reasons that a minute in communion with the Holy Spirit is more enjoyable than the same time apart from fellowship with God.

I reason that Jesus presents a good proposition - whoever saves his self center and godless soul life will lose it. But whoever loses his self centered and godless soul life for His sake will find his soul's delight.

I reason that it is better to lose the illusion of the enjoyment of this world now and gain the eternal enjoyment in the end, then it is to gain deceiving glitter and glitze of this dying world and lose in the end.

I reason that no one has anything more precious, more valuable, more or supreme worth, more worthy than knowing the Son of God Jesus.

I reason that I like that God is my Father. I reason that that is better than having God as some kind of enemy that I am always trying to avoid or deny.

I reason that if I had 10 lives to live on this earth I would not want to waste ONE of them as an unbeliever in Christ the Son of God.

I reason that it is far better to enjoy the unseparable love of Christ than anything else.

I reason that it is perfectly consistent with the power of His words and deeds that this Jesus should also rise from the dead. In short - Jesus is believable.

I reason that I must be on the right track to trust in Christ. The changes in my life do not have me as the source. And I may not be what I should be yet as a Christian. But I am sure glad I am not what I use to be.

I reason that Christ is God and man united. And I reason that Christ is the prototype of the reason man was created and exists - to be united with and mingled with God in a divine / human union of life.

I reason that life without knowing God becomes unbearably empty and vain and without meaning eventually.

I reason that Revelation 21 and 22 seems a perfect conclusion to the history of mankind on this earth. I'm for that. And I want to give myself for the expediting of that purpose of God.

Now, on the third day, the third day ... this Son of God rose from the dead.
I reason that no other explanation for the rise of the Christian church from centuries of Jewish practitioners of Judaism makes as much sense.

I reason that God's track record for the fulfillment of prophecy is so impressive that concerning future prophecies it is reasonable to believe God will AGAIN be faithful.

Originally posted by sonship

Come on Cat ,the only way you can be a person of faith is to abandon reason.

That is ridiculous.

I reason that the Person of Jesus is believable.
I reason that the human imagination would not if it could concoct such a Person as a fictional character.

I reason that not one atheist or agnostic has ever shown me that if I drop my ...[text shortened]... ive that concerning future prophecies it is reasonable to believe God will AGAIN be faithful.

That is not reason,it is a wish list.

Originally posted by sonship
That is ridiculous.

I reason that ......

And kiki46 claims that the Bible shows that your reasoning is foolishness.
Further, the Bible itself is foolishness according to the verse:
1 Corinthians 1:21
For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Or so you believe. But you are not wise nor intelligent by your own admission, and you have been taken in by foolishness that was preached to you. So says the verses you referred us to.

[b]By the way who said I was old?
You have a six year old granddaughter, so you are presumably a bit older than me.
Do you have any other excuse for loosing all reason?[/b]

It is amazing that a brilliant wise intelligent thinker like yourself would converse about spiritual matters with an unwise foolish lunatic old man.

Perhaps you are searching for the truth. I certainly hope you find it.

Originally posted by kiki46
It is amazing that a brilliant wise intelligent thinker like yourself would converse about spiritual matters with an unwise foolish lunatic old man.

Perhaps you are searching for the truth. I certainly hope you find it.

At least I have not convinced myself that foolishness is the truth. Although I wish you no harm it is pretty obvious that you will not find the truth.

Oh, and there is nothing particularly spiritual about what we have just conversed about.

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
I'm struggling to find the lesson here...

The lesson is: Get 'em while they're young.

Originally posted by Soothfast
The lesson is: [b]Get 'em while they're young.[/b]

Proverbs 22:6

Originally posted by twhitehead
At least I have not convinced myself that foolishness is the truth. Although I wish you no harm it is pretty obvious that you will not find the truth.

Oh, and there is nothing particularly spiritual about what we have just conversed about.

When I was younger someone told me that Zambia was a part of Africa and I believed them and it turned out to be true. What if John 3:16 turns out to be true?

Originally posted by sonship

Come on Cat ,the only way you can be a person of faith is to abandon reason.

That is ridiculous.

I reason that the Person of Jesus is believable.
I reason that the human imagination would not if it could concoct such a Person as a fictional character.

I reason that not one atheist or agnostic has ever shown me that if I drop my ...[text shortened]... ive that concerning future prophecies it is reasonable to believe God will AGAIN be faithful.

Pretty much all of these statements are poppycock in one way or another. Pick your favourite one or two and I'll take a swipe at 'em, but I'm not going through the whole lot. Do you think you'll beat the unbelievers down by sheer volume of words or something?

That is not reason,it is a wish list.

No. It is reasoning.

It is reasoning which INCLUDES the possibility of God's Person and God's power.

It is reasoning and including God's existence in the process rather than excluding God from the reasoning process.


As for "wish list" ? Okay. I also WISH the sun would come up in the eastern sky tomorrow.

Does my WISHING make it not true ?
Can one WISH for something which actually is also reality ?
Sure he can.

And I might add that my reasoning is also with a view to history and that a man Jesus really lived and spoke and acted as is generally agreed by historians.

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
Pretty much all of these statements are poppycock in one way or another. Pick your favourite one or two and I'll take a swipe at 'em, but I'm not going through the whole lot. Do you think you'll beat the unbelievers down by sheer volume of words or something?

Pretty much all of these statements are poppycock in one way or another.

Oh, that's what the scribes and Pharisees and religionists which cried out "Crucify, Crucify Him" also said.

What do you offer me that is superior to Jesus Christ ?

Pick your favourite one or two and I'll take a swipe at 'em, but I'm not going through the whole lot. Do you think you'll beat the unbelievers down by sheer volume of words or something?

Nope.

But I can give plenty of reasons why it is worthwhile to believe the Bible and Christ.

Your next post to me, I think, should be your offer of what you have which is superior to my Lord Jesus Christ.

Here's your chance to shine.
Better than Jesus is what you have to offer the world which is __________ ??

Originally posted by sonship

Pretty much all of these statements are poppycock in one way or another.

Oh, that's what the scribes and Pharisees and religionists which cried out "Crucify, Crucify Him" also said.

What do you offer me that is superior to Jesus Christ ?

[quote]
Pick your favourite one or two and I'll take a swipe at 'em, but I'm not going thr o shine.
Better than Jesus is what you have to offer the world which is __________ ??

But I can give plenty of reasons why it is worthwhile to believe the Bible and Christ.

Your next post to me, I think, should be your offer of what you have which is superior to my Lord Jesus Christ.

Speaking for myself, I am not interested in the reasons you think "it is worthwhile to believe" in such things, since I am not interested in argumentum ad consequentiam. I am interested in evidential reasons -- you know, considerations that actually have something to do with whether or not such beliefs are, in fact, accurate.

Even if there happened to be non-evidential reasons why believing that P is "worthwhile", I wouldn't recommend offering such reasons in debates, if your intention is to actually elicit belief in P, since those kinds of pragmatic reasons are typically not the kind that can effect deliberative belief formation. The fact that you promote and ask for such reasons to be swayed on this topic suggests to me (1) you have no clue how to effectively witness for your faith (2) you are epistemologically irresponsible in your belief-building to at least this extent and (3) you are not actually interested in truth as an end in the cognitive process to at least this extent but are rather fixated on what's in the consequences for you.

My approach is rather different. I would like to understand things and the world for what they really are, warts and all. I don't mind saying "I don't know" for subjects for which I don't think the evidence warrants a conclusion either way. Regarding consequences of the way the world really is, for things we don't like we can try to reform them; for those you cannot change, though, only thing to do is to come to some healthy acceptance of them. But hey, there's plenty about the world just as it is that is just fine with me, and I think I am doing okay making peace with the rest. So your appeals to escape reality because fantasyland has more to "offer" us do not really resonate with me.

Originally posted by kiki46
When I was younger someone told me that Zambia was a part of Africa and I believed them and it turned out to be true. What if John 3:16 turns out to be true?

You see what happens when you abandon all reason?
By the way, do you still believe in Santa Claus?

Originally posted by OdBod
Come on Cat ,the only way you can be a person of faith is to abandon reason.

no, it merely means you are human, and not a computer with well defined and rigid thought patterns.

believing your brother will take a bullet for you, believing your children love you, despite insufficient evidence, is faith.