Expressions of faith

Originally posted by LemonJello
My claim is not that your faith in God is noetically irresponsible because you have never seen God; my claim is that your faith is noetically irresponsible because, to first order, you have no good evidential reasons for it.

"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed [are] they that have not seen, and [yet] have believed." -- John 20:29, KJV

Originally posted by LemonJello
So, to be clear, you're saying that your faith has no rational justification? Sounds about right to me. If that is what you tell your granddaughter at that particular juncture, then I have no problem with that at all.

[b]Rationalism has never and will never understand or find God. Since God is not visible to us empiricism is out.

Well, you ma ...[text shortened]... ally irresponsible because, to first order, you have no good evidential reasons for it.[/b]

Matthew 19:14 clearly states that the "Kingdom of God" is made up of those who with childlike trust have believed in Christ as their Savior.

Originally posted by Suzianne
"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed [are] they that have not seen, and [yet] have believed." -- John 20:29, KJV

Yes, I already know that your faith caters to noetic irresponsibility. And you think that's a virtue? 🙄🙄

How do you justify your faith? I asked kiki about rational justification, and kiki basically scoffed at the idea. But, clearly, there must be something that you think confers some sort of justification on your particular faith; or you wouldn't hold it. After all, there's lots of crap that you've never seen; have no evidence for; etc, etc; and yet you don't think you would be blessed by believing in that crap. So, what sort of justification is in play here?

Originally posted by kiki46
Matthew 19:14 clearly states that the "Kingdom of God" is made up of those who with childlike trust have believed in Christ as their Savior.

Why should we value adults' exhibiting of childlike deliberation? I thought the point was that one is supposed to mature into an autonomous adult.

Anyway, the question of God's existence is an appointment with theoretical reasoning. Surely the worst way to come to accurate judgment on theoretical matters is by forgoing your rational faculties.

Originally posted by kiki46
My 6 year old granddaughter received an Easter balloon and instead of keeping it she decided to let it go and send it to Jesus in heaven as a thank you for Him dying for us. She then told me that she forgot to put her name on it but then said I know He was watching and knew it was from me. I told her Jesus was smiling when He got it. She asked how do you know ...[text shortened]... e little children and their simple pure expressions of their faith. What a lesson for all of us.

What a lesson missed.

A lesson about how helium is less dense than air at ground level, and thus the balloon rises.

A lesson about how the balloon will not rise forever because the air becomes less dense higher up.

A lesson about how the balloon will in time come back to the ground because the helium gradually escapes through the balloon's membrane.

A lesson about how the balloon is destined to become litter on the ground that will take decades if not centuries to fully decompose.

A lesson about how there may be conscious beings somewhere in the sky, far away, but they likely know as little about us as we about them.

A lesson about how real friends are so much more valuable than imaginary friends, about how life is what you make of it, and about how we should be kind to others because it is the right thing to do rather than because we fear punishment at the hands of an unseen deity.

Maybe next Easter, eh?

Originally posted by Soothfast
What a lesson missed.

A lesson about how helium is less dense than air at ground level, and thus the balloon rises.

A lesson about how the balloon will not rise forever because the air becomes less dense higher up.

A lesson about how the balloon will in time come back to the ground because the helium gradually escapes through the balloon's membran ...[text shortened]... ther than because we fear punishment at the hands of an unseen deity.

Maybe next Easter, eh?

How about learning this lesson:

New test dates Shroud of Turin to era of Christ

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/03/30/shroud-turin-display/2038295/

Originally posted by RJHinds
How about learning this lesson:

New test dates Shroud of Turin to era of Christ

Funny how in other threads you claim that scientists dating methods are all wrong, but when it comes to the shroud, you suddenly trust them.
In fact, I recall you claiming that if no scientist was alive at a particular time then there is no way scientists can know anything about that time.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Funny how in other threads you claim that scientists dating methods are all wrong, but when it comes to the shroud, you suddenly trust them.
In fact, I recall you claiming that if no scientist was alive at a particular time then there is no way scientists can know anything about that time.

There is much more than scientific dating methods. I think you said you can't look at Youtube videos, but for those who can, here is a link to a televised news report on the recent display of the shoud of turin that links the shroud to Paul and his letter to Timothy and his visit to Rome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=OYdDYT8SkjE

Originally posted by kiki46
My 6 year old granddaughter received an Easter balloon and instead of keeping it she decided to let it go and send it to Jesus in heaven as a thank you for Him dying for us. She then told me that she forgot to put her name on it but then said I know He was watching and knew it was from me. I told her Jesus was smiling when He got it. She asked how do you know ...[text shortened]... e little children and their simple pure expressions of their faith. What a lesson for all of us.

I'm struggling to find the lesson here. Is it that it's ok to lie to children as long as you do it with positive motives? Or that children's questions regarding these lies are easily deflected with scripture?

Originally posted by RJHinds
There is much more than scientific dating methods.

Nevertheless, you contradicted yourself with regards to scientific dating methods.

Originally posted by LemonJello
Why should we value adults' exhibiting of childlike deliberation? I thought the point was that one is supposed to mature into an autonomous adult.

Anyway, the question of God's existence is an appointment with theoretical reasoning. Surely the worst way to come to accurate judgment on theoretical matters is by forgoing your rational faculties.

1 Corinthians 1: 19-21 should explain the foolishness of theoretical reasoning.

Originally posted by kiki46
1 Corinthians 1: 19-21 should explain the foolishness of theoretical reasoning.

And does it use any form of theoretical reasoning in its explanation? Does any of the Bible? All you have is blind faith. You can't even reason about your faith because you believe doing so is foolishness.
I guess the lesson to be learned is to keep our grandchildren away from lunatic old men.

Originally posted by twhitehead
And does it use any form of theoretical reasoning in its explanation? Does any of the Bible? All you have is blind faith. You can't even reason about your faith because you believe doing so is foolishness.
I guess the lesson to be learned is to keep our grandchildren away from lunatic old men.

" all you have is blind faith,"..... I'm sure glad that faith is the way of salvation. It is not blind but centered in a Person whom we are unable to see in this age. He was visible in His first advent and yet many refused to believe trusting in their own works and rationalizing to save them. What a pity.

By the way who said I was old?

Originally posted by kiki46
" all you have is blind faith,"..... I'm sure glad that faith is the way of salvation.

Or so you believe. But you are not wise nor intelligent by your own admission, and you have been taken in by foolishness that was preached to you. So says the verses you referred us to.

By the way who said I was old?
You have a six year old granddaughter, so you are presumably a bit older than me.
Do you have any other excuse for loosing all reason?

Originally posted by kiki46
1 Corinthians 1: 19-21 should explain the foolishness of theoretical reasoning.

Well that's just risible. If you abandon the use of your critical faculties on the strength of a few lines of ancient scripture... well, that sounds pretty foolish to me.