@galveston75 saidWith respect I don't believe these are saying what you are suggesting.
Proverbs 8:22, 23: 22 Jesus says: "Jehovah produced me as the beginning of his way,
The earliest of his achievements of long ago.
23 From ancient times I was installed,
From the start, from times earlier than the earth."
Colossians 1:15, 16: 15 "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 because by means of him all other things were ...[text shortened]... er things have been created through him and for him."
Perhaps you've never seen these scriptures?
Proverbs is referring to Wisdom, not Jesus.
Colossians declares Jesus is the image of the Father, the first born of all creation isn't that Jesus was created, but His position is that of the firstborn of all creation. The first born in human terms would set the child above all of the other siblings if there were a throne to occupy. This is bore out in all scripture when the Father talks about the Son occupying a throne forever. In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Jesus isn't a god, but the Word of God, the Son of God, who became the Son of Man so that we may be what God intended at the very beginning, made in the image of God.
I know we disagree here not attempting to do any more than share gospel that God became a man so that we could be redeemed by God, and for God due to His love for us.
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@caissad4 saidWell yes it is.
Using the Bible to prove the Bible is not a valid response.
It took 1500 years to complete. It had dozens of writers and most never knew each other. There are no contradictions. It has a continuing theme all throughout. Many have tried to destroy it. It has never proved to be wrong. It is completely accurate with historical events. Etc.
So why don't you start writing a book on something as deep as the bible with all the above factors that must be met and then pass it along to others that you don't know. You must be specific on what you want this book to contain as it's main theme, and lets see what it looks like it 1500 years. Deal?
@kellyjay saidRespectfully noted.....
With respect I don't believe these are saying what you are suggesting.
Proverbs is referring to Wisdom, not Jesus.
Colossians declares Jesus is the image of the Father, the first born of all creation isn't that Jesus was created, but His position is that of the firstborn of all creation. The first born in human terms would set the child above all of the other siblings if t ...[text shortened]... ospel that God became a man so that we could be redeemed by God, and for God due to His love for us.
[b]Jehovah POSSESSED me in the beginning of His way, Before His works of old.
I was set up from eternity, From the beginning before the earth was." (Prov. 8:22,23)
Even if you allude that Wisdom in Proverbs 8 refers to the Son of God, which may be valid - Proverbs does not say God made wisdom at the beginning but that He possessed Wisdom. When did Jehovah God not possess Wisdom ?
As long as there has been God (eternally) God has Wisdom.
If not how would He have the wisdom to create Wisdom ?
@KellyJay
There is an intermediate fossil that represents the transition of vertebrate life from water to land. Tiktaalik roseae, discovered in Nunavut in 2004, is an ancient fish called a sarcopteryigian, or lobe-finned fish. Although it bears many similarities to fish like gills, scales, and fins, other key characteristics link Tiktaalik to land animals. While it did have fins, the bones inside the fins are homologous to the bones of the human hand and wrist, indicating it may have been able to bear weight. The animal also had a mobile neck and a strong ribcage, two critical traits that allowed four-legged (tetrapod) creatures to move onto land. Tiktaalik makes sense evolutionarily in the progression of other early tetrapods like the more aquatic Panderichthys and the clearly amphibious Acanthostega.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/shaenamontanari/2015/11/17/four-famous-transitional-fossils-that-support-evolution/#6ed0ac422d8d
@sonship saidI like the way you try to control who responds to what, as if such a thing is in your power.
@Ghost-of-a-DukeSo why write it?!
What if I put forward a Christian argument that no Christian on this site had ever asserted and then used it to make my own position look more reasonable?
Very sloppy sir.
I want caisad4 to explain why a theist claim that "God is" (just one claim for now) is extraordinary more so then its negation.
You st ...[text shortened]... So far she said basically "It is because it is" [paraphrased].
I need something more than that.
Why not just be honest and admit you struggle to cope with the questions I put to you?
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@ghost-of-a-duke saidI'll check out your link. I would like your opinion on mine too, but I'll view your link no matter what you choose to with mine. I didn't bother trying to figure out the time as I normally do. I don't want to subject anyone to an hour or two hour video without them knowing in advance.
@KellyJay
There is an intermediate fossil that represents the transition of vertebrate life from water to land. Tiktaalik roseae, discovered in Nunavut in 2004, is an ancient fish called a sarcopteryigian, or lobe-finned fish. Although it bears many similarities to fish like gills, scales, and fins, other key characteristics link Tiktaalik to land animals. While it ...[text shortened]... tes/shaenamontanari/2015/11/17/four-famous-transitional-fossils-that-support-evolution/#6ed0ac422d8d
Read it, that is no different than any other fossil story I have read, look at this, this is what this could have been. This isn't a fact in your mind is it, not that the fossil is there but what is being said about it?
@kellyjay saidYou don't have to follow the link. I cut and paste the relevant info into the thread. (The source is just there to show where it came from).
I'll check out your link. I would like your opinion on mine too, but I'll view your link no matter what you choose to with mine. I didn't bother trying to figure out the time as I normally do. I don't want to subject anyone to an hour or two hour video without them knowing in advance.
@ghost-of-a-duke saidThe thing is today we can see unique creatures with similar features as others, but that is all they share. It doesn't mean that one came from another.
You don't have to follow the link. I cut and paste the relevant info into the thread. (The source is just there to show where it came from).
@kellyjay saidFossil evidence from a variety of different species, such as Pakicetus, indicates that the earliest relatives of enormous whales like humpbacks were comparatively small land mammals. Discovered in Pakistan, Pakicetus lived during the Eocene (50 million years ago) and although it primarily lived its life on land, it is linked as a whale relative through its unique inner ear shape. Only whales have such an enhanced region of the ear called an "auditory bulla"--and Pakicetus has this too.
The thing is today we can see unique creatures with similar features as others, but that is all they share. It doesn't mean that one came from another.
Your defense against the auditory bulla is, I assume, coincidence?
@galveston75 saidI dunno, you guys had to write your own Bible to get it to say what you wanted it to say.
Your opinion against what the Bible says as well as what Jesus actually said about this? Hummmm I wonder who has it right?
@kellyjay saidYes, the concept is called pre-eminence.
With respect I don't believe these are saying what you are suggesting.
Proverbs is referring to Wisdom, not Jesus.
Colossians declares Jesus is the image of the Father, the first born of all creation isn't that Jesus was created, but His position is that of the firstborn of all creation. The first born in human terms would set the child above all of the other siblings if t ...[text shortened]... ospel that God became a man so that we could be redeemed by God, and for God due to His love for us.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/pre-eminence
@ghost-of-a-duke saidIf there are fully complete creatures that show traits two others share, this doesn't dispel that it could just be another unique creatures that share traits. Where are all of the modern creatures that should be alive today that show us the oldest living model of human to the most advanced model, the oldest living model of apes to the most advanced model of apes and every other lifeform on the planet? The fact that so much time energy and effort have to be given to find something close in the deep past I think is a very strong clue they are not in the present, with cause, there are none the process has never done what people claim, turn simple lifeform into the vast array of life we see today over X amount of years some small change at a time.
@KellyJay
There is an intermediate fossil that represents the transition of vertebrate life from water to land. Tiktaalik roseae, discovered in Nunavut in 2004, is an ancient fish called a sarcopteryigian, or lobe-finned fish. Although it bears many similarities to fish like gills, scales, and fins, other key characteristics link Tiktaalik to land animals. While it ...[text shortened]... tes/shaenamontanari/2015/11/17/four-famous-transitional-fossils-that-support-evolution/#6ed0ac422d8d