@ghost-of-a-duke saidhttps://profmattstrassler.com/articles-and-posts/particle-physics-basics/the-known-forces-of-nature/
How is the universe finely tuned?
I don't believe this is a creation link, so you might not have to use your science faith blinders to look at this. If you started altering just these you screw up the whole thing, I believe there are around 40 different things that if changed would stop life from being a reality. If you spent any time looking into it, you'd see it.
@kellyjay saidLike you and fossils, hey?
https://profmattstrassler.com/articles-and-posts/particle-physics-basics/the-known-forces-of-nature/
I don't believe this is a creation link, so you might not have to use your science faith blinders to look at this. If you started altering just these you screw up the whole thing, I believe there are around 40 different things that if changed would stop life from being a reality. If you spent any time looking into it, you'd see it.
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@ghost-of-a-duke saidWhat can you tell me about fossils that dispel my concerns about them? They show up fully formed in various time periods, they disappear. Others show up in different time periods they disappear. Someone says these are connected to those, and we know this because someone thinks so, due to what they think about events a number of millions of years ago, so how could they be wrong?
Like you and fossils, hey?
If this is a game of best story told about what may have occurred millions of years ago, you could never prove it right or wrong. The clincher for me besides the fossils is where are the almost lifeforms that should be here to confirm only small changes in life occur slowly altering each living system on the planet. There is no reason many of them should not still be alive.
You believe, you have faith in the things people say who study this. I think when you are attempting to put together what may have occurred millions of years ago that cannot be called factual regardless of supporting evidence. You just cannot know, we are limited, so you who buy into it, do it on faith.
@ghost-of-a-duke saidIf you think I'm closing my eyes to a fact, show me.
Like you and fossils, hey?
@caissad4 saidAren't you someone who thinks facts are what people say think occurred million or billions of years ago? You cannot watch something where the data can be found today? Propaganda, is an excuse to not pay attention to things that might actually not support your side of a conflict. There is no conflict here only a search for truth, if you think there is more going on that is on you not me.
And this proves the existence of a god or gods how ?
The objective of the video is to promote creationism, not give facts.
It is simply creationist propaganda.
@suzianne saidProverbs 8:22, 23: 22 Jesus says: "Jehovah produced me as the beginning of his way,
I do wish you'd stop lying about this.
The earliest of his achievements of long ago.
23 From ancient times I was installed,
From the start, from times earlier than the earth."
Colossians 1:15, 16: 15 "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through him and for him."
Perhaps you've never seen these scriptures?
@galveston75 saidOf course I've seen them, and I've explained them numerous times, to you and to robbie, but you both have reason to keep your head in the sand.
Proverbs 8:22, 23: 22 Jesus says: "Jehovah produced me as the beginning of his way,
The earliest of his achievements of long ago.
23 From ancient times I was installed,
From the start, from times earlier than the earth."
Colossians 1:15, 16: 15 "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 because by means of him all other things were ...[text shortened]... er things have been created through him and for him."
Perhaps you've never seen these scriptures?
@sonship saidFine tuning is not a property of the universe. It is a property of theories. Essentially if a theory requires its parameters to be very precisely selected in order to produce the physics we actually see then that is a strong indication that it is no good.
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
[quote] So when you asked, which is more of an extraordinary claim; everything came into existence by nothing and for nothing or everything came into existence by something for something, you weren't actually referring to any claim made by anybody in this forum?!
You were just referring to a claim made by nobody here and using it as a strawman to contr ...[text shortened]... claim that in such a finely tuned universe no God involved in its design should be more persuasive.
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Fine tuning is not a property of the universe. It is a property of theories. Essentially if a theory requires its parameters to be very precisely selected in order to produce the physics we actually see then that is a strong indication that it is no good.
It seems like you want to so isolate your skill so as to inoculate it from having implications which touch on other valid disciplines. I can't take this seriously.
The discovery of the characteristic of finely calibrated constants permitting life to exist may not be "useful" to you for some reason. Some in your discipline and others in other disciplines find the discoveries "useful" in getting a fuller picture of the big questions of life. That includes the public whom supposedly your science is serving.
Who is "we" in this sentence?
Would that "we" include Paul Davies who said " the impression of design is overwhelming. "
From Wiki -
Paul Charles William Davies AM (born 1946) is an English physicist, writer and broadcaster, a professor at Arizona State University as well as the Director of BEYOND: Center for Fundamental Concepts in Science. He is affiliated with the Institute for Quantum Studies at Chapman University in California.
You would remind Davies ( no theist as far as I know) that the implications of design may be overwhelming but are "no good" to your shared enterprise ? Do you mind if the world recognizes the worth of the discoveries though they are "no good" to your game?
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So why write it?!
What if I put forward a Christian argument that no Christian on this site had ever asserted and then used it to make my own position look more reasonable?
Very sloppy sir.
I want caisad4 to explain why a theist claim that "God is" (just one claim for now) is extraordinary more so then its negation.
You stepping in to help her has run its course. Better pull back and let Caissad4 answer. So far she said basically "It is because it is" [paraphrased].
I need something more than that.
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Caissad4,
An Oxford physicist Roger Penrose -
From Wiki
Sir Roger Penrose OM FRS (born 8 August 1931) is an English mathematical physicist, mathematician and philosopher of science. He is Emeritus Rouse Ball Professor of Mathematics in the University of Oxford and Emeritus Fellow of Wadham College, Oxford.
Penrose has made contributions to the mathematical physics of general relativity and cosmology. He has received several prizes and awards, including the 1988 Wolf Prize for physics, which he shared with Stephen Hawking for the Penrose–Hawking singularity theorems.[1]
- said one parameter the "original phase-space volume," appears to be so finely set to a precision to an accuracy of one part in ten billion multiplied by itself one hundred and twenty three times. He said that the number would even be impossible to write in full, since it would require more zeroes than the number of elementary particles in the entire universe.
He considered this fine tuning necessary to "put the universe on its course."
Why is my claim that the universe was put on its course by God an extraordinary claim MORE SO then by some random luck this parameter just happened to be finely tuned?
I want caissd4 to answer. She started the thread "Extraordinary Claims ... etc."
Her rationale here, please. Ghost, I've seen your rationale that she shouldn't be asked.
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@ghost-of-a-duke saidOdds no, choice is the only thing that matters. Pretty much like most things. This one just sort of popped up in front of me wasn't looking for it, made me think of you at once.
The odds are against it.