1. Standard membersonship
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    12 Jun '17 10:094 edits
    If I start writing and no one has a comment I think is worth me (for one) paying attention to, that is not my writing a "monologue." It may be me allocating time only to remarks that I think merit exchange.

    There are plenty of subjects in the realm of Spirituality. This thread (if I have something to do with it) will be about the justification of faith and belief in Christ reckoned as righteousness.

    The book of Romans presents the old testament figure of Abraham to teach about the justification of faith. And Paul does it marvelously.

    " For what does the Scripture say? And Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him as righteousness. (Rom. 4:3)

    ... for we say, Faith was accounted to Abraham as righteousness." (v.9b)


    Abraham, the father of faith, BELIEVED God. And it was reckoned to him by God as righteousness.
  2. Standard membersonship
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    12 Jun '17 10:21
    Real faith is kind of an echo. It is a response to God appearing. Don't ask me to argue how this can logically be so. It is too difficult for me to fully understand or explain.

    But Abraham's faith was a response to the God of glory appearing to him. The faith Abraham showed was a kind of echo in which the appearing of God seems to bounce off of Abraham's heart.

    Any skeptic arguing that this is circular reasoning has a good case. But it appears to be so anyway. The God of glory appeared to Abraham and the response was that Abraham believed God.

    It seems that God shined into Abraham's heart. And Jesus Christ can certainly shine into our hearts when we call upon Him to appear to us.

    The God of glory manifested Himself in incarnation in the believable Son of Man, Jesus Christ. If you open up the New Testament and read about this Man and listen to His words, there is an excellent chance that the God of glory will also appear to you.
  3. Standard membersonship
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    12 Jun '17 11:09
    Coming to Christ in faith is coming recognizing that you have nothing and can do nothing for God. You have nothing which to present to God for your salvation apart from the Son of God. What He is and His finished work is your only hope.

    "Dear God. Thankyou for Christ. For I have nothing. I can do nothing. Without Christ as my righteousness I have none before You. Thankyou for providing Jesus Christ to me to be righteousness."
  4. Standard memberRajk999
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    12 Jun '17 14:27
    Originally posted by sonship
    Coming to Christ in faith is coming recognizing that you have nothing and can do nothing for God. You have nothing which to present to God for your salvation apart from the Son of God. What He is and His finished work is your only hope.

    "Dear God. Thankyou for Christ. For I have nothing. I can do nothing. Without Christ as my righteousness I have none before You. Thankyou for providing Jesus Christ to me to be righteousness."
    I agree completely. Here is what Paul said:

    For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV))

    And Paul says this over and over and over. Christians are saved by GRACE. Works are not necessary at all, neither is it important. We have to do NOTHING. In fact those who do SOMETHING are trying to earn their salvation.

    Great thread sonship.
  5. Standard membersonship
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    12 Jun '17 19:271 edit
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    I agree completely. Here is what Paul said:

    For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV))

    And Paul says this over and over and over. Christians are saved by GRACE. Works are not necessary at all, neither is it important. We have to do N ...[text shortened]... ING. In fact those who do SOMETHING are trying to earn their salvation.

    Great thread sonship.
    This is a significant confirming comment.

    Even the faith is "the faith of Jesus Christ". When something of the element of Christ is transported to us faith comes along with that. The God who calls things not being as being and gives life to the dead furnishes us with the believing ability.

    Abraham, the "father" of the called ones, counted himself as good as dead. He could not even do what seemed to be the most natural things to do - have a child. He and Sarah could not even do that. Eventually, he counted himself at 100 years old as good as dead.

    This is our example of Justification by Faith that Paul writes about. And Paul says -

    (As it is written, "I have appointed you a father of many nations" ) in the sight of God whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and calls the things not being as being.

    He beyond hope believed in hope in order that he might become the father of any nations, according to that which was spoken, "So shall your seed be." (Rom. 4:17,18)


    Rather than take one hundred years it is good for the called of God to learn from the outset. God must call the things not being as being. God must give life to the dead. God must even furnish us with the believing ability. And He will.
  6. Standard memberRajk999
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    13 Jun '17 11:50
    Originally posted by sonship
    This is a significant confirming comment.

    Even the faith is [b]"the faith of Jesus Christ"
    . When something of the element of Christ is transported to us faith comes along with that. The God who calls things not being as being and gives life to the dead furnishes us with the believing ability.

    Abraham, the "father" of the called ones, counted ...[text shortened]... od must give life to the dead. God must even furnish us with the believing ability. And He will.[/b]
    Tell us more sweet lies about faith plus nothing else. Its is nice doctrine for the worthless servant with one talent.
  7. Standard memberRajk999
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    13 Jun '17 16:21
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Tell us more sweet lies about faith plus nothing else. Its is nice doctrine for the worthless servant with one talent.
    Come on sonship.. tell me more. I'm getting tempted to go and DO SOMETHING. Tell me more about doing NOTHING and how doing nothing is the correct way to the Kingdom of God .
  8. SubscriberSuzianne
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    15 Jun '17 07:45
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Come on sonship.. tell me more. I'm getting tempted to go and DO SOMETHING. Tell me more about doing NOTHING and how doing nothing is the correct way to the Kingdom of God .
    He didn't say that, and NO Christians here say that.

    What is wrong with you?
  9. Standard memberKellyJay
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    15 Jun '17 10:07
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    He didn't say that, and NO Christians here say that.

    What is wrong with you?
    Truth doesn't matter with some, they will believe lies, and for them that is their truth.
    Railing against things that were never said seems to be way to go, dealing with actual
    testimony said, or scripture used isn't.
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    15 Jun '17 10:42
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    He didn't say that, and NO Christians here say that.

    What is wrong with you?
    Rajk is projecting his convoluted perspective and bias because he feels powerless to control the lives of others. It's classic legalism.

    Rajk and ToO both claim that one must keep the commandments of Christ and stop sinning in order to be saved while unwilling to state that they stopped sinning themselves.

    Can you imagine the frustration and ordeal they're going through in their hypocrisy?

    I'm convinced neither of them actually believe in Jesus and are only here to try to confound and confuse the doctrine of salvation.
  11. SubscriberFMF
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    15 Jun '17 10:46
    Originally posted by josephw
    Rajk and ToO both claim that one must keep the commandments of Christ and stop sinning in order to be saved while unwilling to state that they stopped sinning themselves.
    So, don't you have to "keep the commandments of Christ" then?
  12. Standard membersonship
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    15 Jun '17 11:4512 edits
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Don't read any more of this post Rajk999, because you won't understand it.

    Tell us more sweet lies about faith plus nothing else. Its is nice doctrine for the worthless servant with one talent.

    Don't bother reading more Rajk999.

    The one talented servant who was punished was among that class of servants who suffer loss, lose the reward of the millennial kingdom, but are still saved yet so as through fire.

    SHUT YOUR EYES Rajk999!

    " If anyone's work which he has built upon the foundation remains, he will receive a reward.

    If anyone's work is consumed, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." (1 Cor. 3:14,15)


    The one talented servant does not "receive a reward."
    The one talented servant "suffer[s] loss".
    The one talented servant is "saved, yet so as through fire" ... (through the educational tribulation of "the outer darkness" ).

    The one talented servant, like the ten talented and five talented servant serves Jesus Christ his Lord and Master.
  13. Standard memberRajk999
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    15 Jun '17 11:57
    Originally posted by josephw
    Rajk is projecting his convoluted perspective and bias because he feels powerless to control the lives of others. It's classic legalism.

    Rajk and ToO both claim that one must keep the commandments of Christ and stop sinning in order to be saved while unwilling to state that they stopped sinning themselves.

    Can you imagine the frustration and ordeal th ...[text shortened]... lly believe in Jesus and are only here to try to confound and confuse the doctrine of salvation.
    Rajk and ToO did NOT say that you have to keep the commandments

    JESUS CHRIST DID

    You claim to believe in Jesus Christ only with your mouth .. more mouth worshipers .. this thread is full of them.
  14. Standard memberRajk999
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    15 Jun '17 12:02
    Originally posted by sonship
    Don't read any more of this post Rajk999, because you won't understand it.

    Tell us more sweet lies about faith plus nothing else. Its is nice doctrine for the worthless servant with one talent.

    Don't bother reading more Rajk999.

    The one talented servant who was punished was among that class of servants who suffer loss, lose the rewa ...[text shortened]... ervant, like the ten talented and five talented servant serves Jesus Christ his Lord and Master.
    SHUT YOUR EYES SONSHIP ..

    If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. (1 Corinthians 3:17 KJV)

    There are some Christian Saints who will be destroyed. or according to you, eternally tormented.
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    15 Jun '17 12:08
    Originally posted by FMF
    So, don't you have to "keep the commandments of Christ" then?
    That's not what the topic of discussion is about, in case you haven't noticed.

    But to answer your question; the commandments of Christ aren't just contained in the four gospels as red letters. The whole council of God, as contained in the entire Bible, is there for every believer to be trusted and obeyed. No Christian will ever say they're not accountable to the commandments of God.

    The idea, as suggested and promoted by Rajk and ToO, is that salvation is contingent on obedience to the law. That idea contradicts the gospel of Jesus Christ.

    Salvation by the works of the law is nowhere taught in the scriptures. The very opposite is taught. The law condemns, but the grace of God saves. By grace through faith has always been, and always will be how one is saved.

    It's this easy - Christ died for the ungodly. That's everyone. We are separated from God by sin, and there's not a damn thing we can do in and of ourselves to change that. We come to the cross as we are. While we were yet sinners, lost and enemies Jesus gave his life as an atonement. We had nothing to do with it at all.

    As individuals we believe Christ died for us and paid our sin debt in full. After receiving Christ by faith one walks by faith. Grace is not a license to sin. Rajk and ToO seem to think every Christian besides themselves thinks we can go on sinning after being saved. God forbid anyone should think so. It's a false accusation leveled against Christians by legalistic minded individuals hell bent on controlling others behavior.

    Rajk and ToO teach a false gospel, which is no gospel at all.
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