17 May 10
@FreakyKBH
I am still waiting to hear from you weather the unbelievers actually exist, or whether this whole thread was asking a hypothetical question about non-existent entities.
17 May 10
The OP infers two groups of people and their positions relative to a gift. It assumes that the soul lives forever as well as that each person with the ability to decide determines where their soul will live forever. The determining factor each person must decide is whether or not to accept a gift. Those who accept the gift are labeled "believers," whereas those who reject the gift are labeled "unbelievers."
The OP then asks the question why an unbeliever would insist on remaining in that state, i.e., rejection of the gift, in light of the fact that acceptance of the gift carries no other action.
17 May 10
Originally posted by FreakyKBHAnd you are yet to say whether you believe that any such people exist.
The OP then asks the question why an unbeliever would insist on remaining in that state, i.e., rejection of the gift, in light of the fact that acceptance of the gift carries no other action.
It is my belief that under the OP, nobody would refuse such a gift. Is that all you wanted to know? Are we agreed on that point, or do you believe that some people would refuse it?
18 May 10
Originally posted by twhiteheadThe question asks why a person would refuse to accept a gift, knowing the decision determines their eternal state. As far as I can tell, there are MANY people in such a position, i.e., knowledgeable to the point of understanding the ramifications, but obstinate enough to reject the gift nonetheless.
And you are yet to say whether you believe that any such people exist.
It is my belief that under the OP, nobody would refuse such a gift. Is that all you wanted to know? Are we agreed on that point, or do you believe that some people would refuse it?
You may be of the position that sees rejection as absurd, but there are many people who still reject it. Thus, the question: why?
18 May 10
Originally posted by FreakyKBHFirst you should establish that such people do exist, before you start pondering why they reject the gift. I personally do not believe they exist.
As far as I can tell, there are MANY people in such a position, i.e., knowledgeable to the point of understanding the ramifications, but obstinate enough to reject the gift nonetheless.
You may be of the position that sees rejection as absurd, but there are many people who still reject it. Thus, the question: why?
I think that if you looked carefully, the ones you believe exists are not obstinate but rather do not fit your OP as closely as you think ie they are not as 'knowledgeable' as you believe, or more accurately believe something quite different.
18 May 10
Originally posted by twhiteheadThis is nothing more or less than the silly old chesnut where it is asserted that everyone believes in God deep down but some people are in denial about it.
First you should establish that such people do exist, before you start pondering why they reject the gift.
18 May 10
1 edit
Originally posted by FMFHe has not yet made that claim. He has used a rather odd definition for 'unbeliever' but once he made it clear what he meant (which he should have done in the first post considering the non-standard usage), he is not necessarily going for that particular chesnut.
This is nothing more or less than the silly old chesnut where it is asserted that everyone believes in God deep down but some people are in denial about it.
He is however heading in that direction, and as with that chesnut, he needs to show good reason to believe that such people exist before asking why such people exist.
After all the question is not answerable in the purely hypothetical, as many possible reasons for the rejection may exist (ranging from insanity to a death wish), but he is really asking what the actual reasons are, and that cannot be answered if they do not exist.
And lastly, he is only asking because he finds it puzzling that such people exist, so if it turns out that they don't he will no longer be interested in the answer.
18 May 10
Originally posted by twhiteheadTo find such people, one need to look no further than this thread, wherein at least one person already declared their rejection of the gift even in light of the remaining assumption.
He has not yet made that claim. He has used a rather odd definition for 'unbeliever' but once he made it clear what he meant (which he should have done in the first post considering the non-standard usage), he is not necessarily going for that particular chesnut.
He is however heading in that direction, and as with that chesnut, he needs to show good rea ...[text shortened]... ople exist, so if it turns out that they don't he will no longer be interested in the answer.
But you're really just going around the question without giving it an honest response. If you wouldn't reject said gift, then you're not part of the group in question. The group in question are those who--- in light of the givens---- reject the gift.
As you stated, a person would have to be insane or burdened with a death wish to reject such a gift. I agree.