@galveston75 saidMy point was that gods with a small “g” references created beings from those we or God created. While God is one who was , is, and is to come one without beginning or end.
@KellyJay
Well two things. You had mentioned that people misunderstand what god is and how it's miss applied. You are correct. This is where the trinity comes in and how it confuses the truth of who the FATHER Jehovah is, who his SON Jesus is and WHAT the holy spirit is (not a part of Jesus at all but it only applies to Jehovah's power). That's why it has never been ca ...[text shortened]... , is because it in no way supports the trinity which you seemingly don't know you believe in? Right?
You simply saying what I said was in error yet you have not explained why outside of making a declaration.
@KellyJay said2 Cor 4:4: "among whom the (((( god )))) of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, so that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through".
My point was that gods with a small “g” references created beings from those we or God created. While God is one who was , is, and is to come one without beginning or end.
You simply saying what I said was in error yet you have not explained why outside of making a declaration.
So....Satan is a god...correct? Did Jehovah create him? Yes he did. But this angel turned himself into Satan.
Did Jehovah create Jesus? Yes..... Colossians 1:15, 16
Col 1: 15,16: "He is the image of the invisible God, ( it says: image, it does not
say Jehovah ) the firstborn of all creation (Jehovah has always existed, Jesus has not always existed) 16 because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through him and for him."
What does "through him" mean? Does that mean Jesus the "Son" actually mean he was the creator? No it doesn't say that at all. It shows that it was all created by the Father Jehovah. But in ways that we humans cannot understand, Jehovah (through) Jesus, all things were created. Jesus never had the power to create on his own.
Jehovah designed everything, but he allowed his son Jesus to be a part of it. No other of Jehovah's sons (angels) were involved in that.
@KellyJay saidSo still wondering why you do no not use God's name, Jehovah?
My point was that gods with a small “g” references created beings from those we or God created. While God is one who was , is, and is to come one without beginning or end.
You simply saying what I said was in error yet you have not explained why outside of making a declaration.
@galveston75 saidActs 4:12
So still wondering why you do no not use God's name, Jehovah?
Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”
@galveston75 saidShow me where it says Jesus was created. All things were created through Him and for Him, He wasn't there to create Himself. The Jesus is Word of God, so when scripture says, "God said" it is Jesus the Word. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever, You'd have him not being here, then He was created.
2 Cor 4:4: "among whom the (((( god )))) of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, so that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through".
So....Satan is a god...correct? Did Jehovah create him? Yes he did. But this angel turned himself into Satan.
Did Jehovah create Jesus? ...[text shortened]... allowed his son Jesus to be a part of it. No other of Jehovah's sons (angels) were involved in that.
Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.
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@KellyJay saidFirst thanks for your comments. I appreciate them.
Acts 4:12
Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”
The reason for this and other scriptures pertaining to Jesus is exactly as it says. But why Jesus?
Adam lost for all humans the ability to live forever on this planet Jehovah created for us. If Adam had not gone against his God's command, Adam would probably still be alive today as well as all of his offspring. But...Adam is not here because he sinned. But Jehovah, Jesus's father had set into motion the only thing that could be done to give all humans the chance to regain what Adam lost. And that was to let Jesus become a human and then eventually die as the ransom needed to counter Adams condemnation on all humans.
This is something his Father, Jehovah could not do as the Bible says that God cannot die as he is not human. He has been and always will be eternal.
So yes you are correct that the name of the one who has done this for us is Jesus, God's son just as the Bible says many times but the one who knew from the second that Adam sinned what had to be done is Jesus's father, Jehovah.
Absolutely no different then if my father asking me to do something for him because the situation did not allow him to do it. I agreed to do what he asked of me. It is really that simple.
The Bible speaks of a time in the future that once Jesus accomplishes all that his Father Jehovah has asked of him in regards to the earth finally being brought back to the condition Jehovah originally planned it to be for us. The bible says that Jesus will hand back over the "keys to the Kingdom" to his Father Jehovah.
After this, there is no mention of what Jesus will be doing to the service of his Father, Jehovah.........
https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/kingdom-keys/
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@KellyJay
What does the title "The "Word of God" mean? Jesus is also called the "spokesman of God"? Jesus is also called an "ambassador" between his Father Jehovah and mankind. When we pray to God, how do we end those prayers by saying what? Do we just directly pray to God (Jehovah) or who do we pray through so that God (Jehovah) will hear us?
What do those titles mean?
@galveston75 saidThe Word of God is Jesus Christ, He is the express image of God, He became a man taking on our frailties so we could see Him in terms we could relate to. You keep saying Jehovah while God gave us Jesus' name to be saved. When the scripture teaches us that God is one, you seem to making God be several gods apart from one another completely set apart, versus just one. God is a single complex social being made of three Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. God is love that is not something He does only, but who He is, the love of God for the Father to the Son and the Spirit is an eternal love and through that they made everything else, Jesus is not a created being, neither is the Holy Spirit.
@KellyJay
What does the title "The "Word of God" mean? Jesus is also called the "spokesman of God"? Jesus is also called an "ambassador" between his Father Jehovah and mankind. When we pray to God, how do we end those prayers by saying what? Do we just directly pray to God (Jehovah) or who do we pray through so that God (Jehovah) will hear us?
What do those titles mean?
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@galveston75 saidGod cannot die, which is why Jesus became a man, He was fully man, while on earth everything He did without exception, He did as a man. The Father gave Him things to do, He did nothing without the Father no different from when the Father through the Holy Spirit gave those who knew Jesus out to do works too.
First thanks for your comments. I appreciate them.
The reason for this and other scriptures pertaining to Jesus is exactly as it says. But why Jesus?
Adam lost for all humans the ability to live forever on this planet Jehovah created for us. If Adam had not gone against his God's command, Adam would probably still be alive today as well as all of his offspring. But.. ...[text shortened]... ice of his Father, Jehovah.........
https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/kingdom-keys/
@KellyJay saidLol. Sorry but have to laugh, not at you but what you are saying. In one breath you explain who Jesus is and in the next you are correcting yourself.
The Word of God is Jesus Christ, He is the express image of God, He became a man taking on our frailties so we could see Him in terms we could relate to. You keep saying Jehovah while God gave us Jesus' name to be saved. When the scripture teaches us that God is one, you seem to making God be several gods apart from one another completely set apart, versus just one. God i ...[text shortened]... nd through that they made everything else, Jesus is not a created being, neither is the Holy Spirit.
But it is ashamed on how much Satan has got the trinity idea so ingrained into so many that Jesus is God's son, true but then he is also God almighty himself. The bible clearly says that Almighty God cannot die, but then you say some strange part of him did, which he really did die ( Jesus not his Father.) The bible says it was Jesus that died, but then you say God almighty cannot die because the Jesus part of God Almighty did, or not?
Anyway as I said before you believe in the trinity by what you say but yet you apparently don't believe in the trinity because I've asked you a couple times and you don't answer. Or do you? We will never know I guess.
My mother was raised in a church that believed the trinity. But once she began to actually study the bible, the actual bible and not what was just preached to her from a trinity breathing human that hardly ever opened the bible and then learned where the trinity idea originated, (Babylon) she was finally able to see what the bible really said. Your bible can do the same for you if you really wanted it.
So here is a test.. Jesus is the "son" because the bible says he is, but yet you say he is God Almighty and is the Father of the son Jesus. They both have names, correct? So who is the Holy Spirit and who is the word? Is it also the Father and the son but if not what is it's name?? So did all 3 parts die when Jesus was killed or was it just one or maybe two of the parts? If so who resurrected Jesus the son/god/holy spirit/word, being up in heaven if they are the same...maybe? Whew... this is so hard. Or is it? Who knows????
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@galveston75 saidThe Trinity is indeed a daft concept, a clumsy retro fit to the bible. But before you go patting yourself on the back, Jesus actually being the archangel Michael is similarly daft, and a non-biblical afterthought.
Lol. Sorry but have to laugh, not at you but what you are saying. In one breath you explain who Jesus is and in the next you are correcting yourself.
But it is ashamed on how much Satan has got the trinity idea so ingrained into so many that Jesus is God's son, true but then he is also God almighty himself. The bible clearly says that Almighty God cannot die, but then ...[text shortened]... d, being up in heaven if they are the same...maybe? Whew... this is so hard. Or is it? Who knows????
Edit: I have to laugh.
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
No I would never do that...Really!
But check this out, but first I have to ask: What was Jesus's name before the name Jesus was given to him by his earthly parents?
https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/archangel-michael/
@galveston75 saidThere is no correction required for the things that I said. I have been saying three persons who are one God. This means that God is not a created being so neither the Father, Son, Holy Spirit were ever not God.
Lol. Sorry but have to laugh, not at you but what you are saying. In one breath you explain who Jesus is and in the next you are correcting yourself.
But it is ashamed on how much Satan has got the trinity idea so ingrained into so many that Jesus is God's son, true but then he is also God almighty himself. The bible clearly says that Almighty God cannot die, but then ...[text shortened]... d, being up in heaven if they are the same...maybe? Whew... this is so hard. Or is it? Who knows????
Your doctrine has Jesus Christ and the Holy Script being created and later Adam and so on. That doctrine says that God could had if He wanted to, make Adam as good as Jesus, right off the bat, and all of the results of our fallen nature would be necessary had God wanted that.
Your doctrine also has no cost to God for our redemption, He could just make something to kill and call it good. While the gospel story has Jesus the Word of God laying down His life, the eternal sinless Son becoming sin for our salvation. The god you are promoting is untouchable by our plight unlike the God of scripture who entered into humanity to share out pain and become our propitiation for us.