Flat Earth Christians

Originally posted by Palynka
Daniel 4:10-11 is a description of a dream.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel%204:10-11;&version=9;

If the dream is important enough to be written down and implemented as a part of the bible, then it has to have some signifiance, don't you think?

What about Matthew 4:8 and Revelation 1:7 ?
There has to be an plausible explanation for all three of them?

But don't misunderstand me. A very few christians believe that the Earth is flat. I only state that there are passages in the bible that says so. Scientific observations says that this is false. Scientific observations says that YE creationism also is false. That, and that only, is my point. Everything in the bible isn't the truth only because you can read it in the bible. There are things that is not true.

Originally posted by Palynka
Not at all. Why should a literal interpretation of certain passages exclude the possibility of interpreting other passages metaphorically?

Accepting the possibility of metaphorical passages implies (to maintain consistence) that the literal interpretation is not by itself sufficient for a certain argument.* I think we can agree on that. But note th ...[text shortened]... [b]not saying that the literal interpretation is irrelevant. Just that it isn't sufficient.[/b]

If you say that "Bible is the word of god" then there is two possibilities:
(1) The bible is true in its entirety. or
(2) Not all written in the bible is true.

(2) says that there are various degrees of truth in the bible. Some part are entirely true, others are not. Then we have to find a method to decide *what* in the bible is true and *what not* in the bible is true. that's the reason that christianity has so many different view, and different churches, that dispute eachothers view, sometimes even fight eachother, sometimes even to death.

I say (2) is the correct way to interprete the bible. But this implies that noone have the monopoly to decide what is true and what is not. The creation as written in the bible is not true, scientific observations sa otherwise. Miracles and prophecies too, of the same reason.

But now I'm discussing with you, Palynka, and I know that you are not a YE creationist, therefore we agree with eachother. Jelly Kay, on the other hand, think he can prove YEC with science, and the only thing he proves with that is that he doesn't understand science.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
I find the idea of a flat Earth distressing.

Mother Gaia has big ones, for sure.

HA Classic!😉

Originally posted by FabianFnas
I don't think you ever will answer my question because then you have to admit that you don't believe in the bible, that you deny the bible. By denying the bible you have a weak case about the young earth belief.

How in hell can you believe that the Earth is flat? Are you completely crazy? Haven't you seen any picture from satellites? If the Earth is fl ...[text shortened]... pouring out from the edges? Do you believe the Earth is flat only because the bible says it?

I have answered all of your questions I'm aware of answer mine!
Kelly

Originally posted by FabianFnas
No no, I'm not one of them. I think the bible should be read no way near litterally, believe me on that. Only christian fundamentalists think that. I'm not even near a fundamentalist in this sense.

But people believing that the earth was created 6000 years ago, disregarding all scientific observations and proofs that it isn't, of the only reason that i ...[text shortened]... powers of that time. There is nothing holy or sacred by the words of the bible, not at all.

You need to take all things in and outside of the scripture in context
which you FabianFnas do not seem to grasp, are you going to answer
my questions yet?
Kelly

Originally posted by FabianFnas
In the bible there are several passages that show that Earth is flat. To be a true christian, then you have to believe that the Earth is Flat in accordance of the bible.

Read and learn:

The Shape of the Earth

Disregarding the dome, the essential flatness of the earth's surface is required by verses like Daniel 4:10-11. In Daniel, the king “saw a ...[text shortened]... in the Science Forum, but here in the Spiritual Forum. Because here the bible is the Truth.

Context, something you should start looking into.
Kelly

Daniel 4


5 I saw a dream which made me afraid; and the thoughts upon my bed and the visions of my head troubled me.

6 Therefore made I a decree to bring in all the wise men of Babylon before me, that they might make known unto me the interpretation of the dream.

7 Then came in the magicians, the enchanters, the Chaldeans, and the soothsayers; and I told the dream before them; but they did not make known unto me the interpretation thereof.

8 But at the last Daniel came in before me, whose name was Belteshazzar, according to the name of my god, and in whom is the spirit of the holy gods: and I told the dream before him, saying,

9 O Belteshazzar, master of the magicians, because I know that the spirit of the holy gods is in thee, and no secret troubleth thee, tell me the visions of my dream that I have seen, and the interpretation thereof.

10 Thus were the visions of my head upon my bed: I saw, and, behold, a tree in the midst of the earth; and the height thereof was great.

11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth.

12 The leaves thereof were fair, and the fruit thereof much, and in it was food for all: the beasts of the field had shadow under it, and the birds of the heavens dwelt in the branches thereof, and all flesh was fed from it.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
But you, best Pink, are not those extremists who believe in a young earth. You have a healthy kind of beliefs. The YEC have not. So my answer below is not for you, but to the christians who believes in every letter in the bible to be true:

But it says so in the bible - the earth is flat. Don't you believe in the bible? Then how come you believe that th ...[text shortened]... eties of life is created exactly as it is written in the Genesis, during 6 days 6000 years ago?

Just incase you lose track of questions put to you FabianFnas.


You are so wrong, but it does not matter there are several views on
how old the earth is, read Gen 1:1 and 1:2 and tell me how much
time passed between those two verses? So if there are billions of
years there and countless events that could mean the universe is
billions of years old, and you could believe that and be a good
Christian. You just want to paint a nasty picture of people you have
little respect for you will say anything to do it.
Kelly

Genesis

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

2 And the earth was waste and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep: and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
If you say that "Bible is the word of god" then there is two possibilities:
(1) The bible is true in its entirety. or
(2) Not all written in the bible is true.

(2) says that there are various degrees of truth in the bible. Some part are entirely true, others are not. Then we have to find a method to decide *what* in the bible is true and *what not* i ...[text shortened]... with science, and the only thing he proves with that is that he doesn't understand science.

But what I'm saying here is that there is more to truth than the literal interpretation.

I think a Christian can coherently argue that the story of Adam and Eve is simply an allegory. The same is true for Genesis and many other passages. Allegories are not to be taken literally, but that doesn't mean they are untrue or incorrect. There can definitely be truth in allegories.

I don't ask YEC to throw away the Bible, I try to convince them that there is poetry in it. 🙂

Originally posted by Palynka
But what I'm saying here is that there is more to truth than the literal interpretation.

I think a Christian can coherently argue that the story of Adam and Eve is simply an allegory. The same is true for Genesis and many other passages. Allegories are not to be taken literally, but that doesn't mean they are untrue or incorrect. There can definitely be t ...[text shortened]... don't ask YEC to throw away the Bible, I try to convince them that there is poetry in it. 🙂

well said.

Originally posted by Palynka
But what I'm saying here is that there is more to truth than the literal interpretation.

I think a Christian can coherently argue that the story of Adam and Eve is simply an allegory. The same is true for Genesis and many other passages. Allegories are not to be taken literally, but that doesn't mean they are untrue or incorrect. There can definitely be t ...[text shortened]... don't ask YEC to throw away the Bible, I try to convince them that there is poetry in it. 🙂

Just so I know, have you the answer how everything got here?
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Just so I know, have you the answer how everything got here?
Kelly

Probably not. But what do you mean by 'everything' and 'here'?

And that I do not know what colour are the pants that Fabian is wearing doesn't mean I should believe duecer if he tells me they are brown.

Originally posted by Palynka
Probably not. But what do you mean by 'everything' and 'here'?

And that I do not know what colour are the pants that Fabian is wearing doesn't mean I should believe duecer if he tells me they are brown.

LOL, true very true high marks! 🙂

My point, if no one knows how everything (all there is) here (in the
here and now) how would you know if you were given several ways
to do it which one is true.
Kelly

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Do you, Kelly, believe the Earth is flat, or do you deny the bible?

The tongue of the wise useth knowledge aright: but the mouth of fools poureth out foolishness. You and a few others are teaching your own form of christianity. I know of no Baptist Church that teaches the doctrines that you are teaching.

Originally posted by gambit3
The tongue of the wise useth knowledge aright: but the mouth of fools poureth out foolishness. You and a few others are teaching your own form of christianity. I know of no Baptist Church that teaches the doctrines that you are teaching.

"The tongue of the wise useth knowledge aright: but the mouth of fools poureth out foolishness."
In English please, this is not English as I have learned it.

I am not teaching any form of christianity so obviously I'm not teaching any baptism.

Originally posted by Palynka
But what I'm saying here is that there is more to truth than the literal interpretation.

I think a Christian can coherently argue that the story of Adam and Eve is simply an allegory. The same is true for Genesis and many other passages. Allegories are not to be taken literally, but that doesn't mean they are untrue or incorrect. There can definitely be t ...[text shortened]... don't ask YEC to throw away the Bible, I try to convince them that there is poetry in it. 🙂

The funny thing is that I agree totally.

The passage of the rainbow is beautiful. But to see it as that the rainbow is invented by god in that situation and of that reason as described in the Genisis is horrifying. The rainbow, i.e. splitting a beam of light in a spectrum, has been there from the days of Big Bang billions of years ago.

The bible is not the best textbook of physics, neither is Hávamál, but they can be good poetry in either case.