Originally posted by galveston75Well why not just be honest from the start and say "I don't know" instead of pretending to know, but avoiding answering the question?
I certianly don't know how all that works and I know Twhitehead wants me to answer but I can't in the way he wants. I just don't know.
More importantly, if you don't know what a kind is, or how to determine whether two animals are of the same kind, how can you make claims about kinds that would require such knowledge?
For example, you claim that nobody has ever been able to make a new 'kind'. You cannot possibly know this if you don't know what a 'kind' is.
Originally posted by RJHindsOf course I don't. The term comes from you and a few other posters, and none of you will tell me what it means.
You are the one that does not seem to know what a "kind" is,
even though it has been explained to you over and over.
No it hasn't.
You are yet to give me a definition, and galveston75 who has attempted to do so has just admitted that he doesn't actually know.
I even gave you a way to find out if one animal is the same kind
as another animal and you still can't understand it.
I must have missed that. Can you repeat it please?
We have tried our best to explain it as simple as we can and we still
can get it in your twhithead.
You keep saying 'we' yet you and the other posters I am talking to here clearly have different opinions and definitions.
Maybe one day, when you grow up, you will get it. As for now, we don't know what else to tell you.
Maybe one day, you will learn to admit your errors and your ignorance instead of resorting to insults.
Originally posted by RJHindsSorry, I missed this post, so ignore my request for a repeat in my previous post.
You can find out this way. Put one of the cattle, say a Hereford or
whatever type you can, with a type of buffalo of opposite sex and
see if they mate and produce an offspring calf or two. If they are
able to do this then you are halfway to proving they are the same
kind. Then when the calves reach maturity and breed to produce
offspring calves, you ...[text shortened]... the experiment. Once you have done this then
you can tell me if they are the same kind or not.
So, you are saying that if two animals can interbreed they are of the same kind.
What if they cant interbreed? Are they therefore not of the same kind?
You said we are only halfway there. How do we get all the way there?
Do you agree that galveston75 clearly does not agree with you because he clearly says that cattle and buffalo can interbreed but implies that they are not the same kind. He even goes as far as to say we must not try to interbreed them as God doesn't like it.
Originally posted by galveston75You don't need power cables, all you need is time. The experiment would run like this.
Well I can't see that ever happening as I know mans ability to go there is probably pretty low. But just saying they somehow made some unbelieveable discovery and figured out how to pull that off, I'd sure not want to be in the same room with whatever starts to move when they hook up the power cables to jump start that thing.
Take a population of animals that can breed ie. a species of fox, and split them into two. Population A and population B. Put them into two wildly different environments, and just leave them for hundreds of thousands of years. As the eons pass their respective genetic makeup will have changed dramatically form each other. At some point their DNA will have changed so much that even if Pop A and Pop B were to meet back up breeding would be impossible because their DNA couldn't code. We have now have two different 'kinds', or to give it this process it's sexy title, 'speciation' has occurred.
No cables needed.
Originally posted by twhiteheadThis is just geting too funny. I can't take it anymore.
Sorry, I missed this post, so ignore my request for a repeat in my previous post.
So, you are saying that if two animals can interbreed they are of the same kind.
What if they cant interbreed? Are they therefore not of the same kind?
You said we are only halfway there. How do we get all the way there?
Do you agree that galveston75 clearly does not ...[text shortened]... kind. He even goes as far as to say we must not try to interbreed them as God doesn't like it.
Originally posted by RJHindsI agree as it seems instead of it being what we understand to be a simple and obvious fact that anyone can see in any life form on this planet, seems to be a very complicated issue with some here.
This is just geting too funny. I can't take it anymore.
I don't know what else we can say or present to them so I also see no need in the going in this circle thing.
Originally posted by galveston75It would help if you could present your point of view in understandable english.
I agree as it seems instead of it being what we understand to be a simple and obvious fact that anyone can see in any life form on this planet, seems to be a very complicated issue with some here.
I don't know what else we can say or present to them so I also see no need in the going in this circle thing.
Do you accept my experiment above would produce a new 'kind'?
Originally posted by Proper KnobSo being in different environments will change the DNA? Would you have proof of this within a species like the fox?
You don't need power cables, all you need is time. The experiment would run like this.
Take a population of animals that can breed ie. a species of fox, and split them into two. Population A and population B. Put them into two wildly different environments, and just leave them for hundreds of thousands of years. As the eons pass their respective genet ...[text shortened]... ive it this process it's sexy title, 'speciation' has occurred.
No cables needed.
3 edits
Originally posted by galveston75The environment doesn't change an organisms DNA, mutations occur randomly. Whether those mutations are going to of benefit or a detriment to the organism depends on the environment it is in.
So being in different environments will change the DNA? Would you have proof of this within a species like the fox?
Example - We have two populations of foxes, one in a cold the other in a warm environment. A mutation arises in both populations which gives a fox longer hair. In the cold environment that would give that particular fox a survival advantage, in the warm environment that mutation would have the opposite effect and the fox would not survive. The same mutation, but whether it's beneficial or not depends on the environment.
Would you have proof of this within a species like the fox?
Yes. A study was started in 1959 in Russia to domesticate silver foxes, a variant of red foxes. They started with wild foxes and selectively bred the tamest ones with each other, 50 years later you can now buy a tame domesticated sliver fox to live in your home if you have a spare $7,000. Curiously as they generations went by, not only did the become tamer but they physically changed, in short they started to look like dogs; Welsh Collies to be exact. Their genetics changed also, ie. their DNA had begun to change.
Here's a link to a wiki -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domesticated_silver_fox
and a scientific paper looking at the genetic changes.
http://www.cell.com/current-biology/retrieve/pii/S0960982205013278
Now if selective breeding can have these result in 50 years. What do you think is likely to happen in 500,000 years or even 5 million years?
Originally posted by galveston75What? Just a few posts ago you admitted that you did not know. Now it is "a simple and obvious fact that anyone can see"? You are contradicting yourself over and over in just about every post you make.
I agree as it seems instead of it being what we understand to be a simple and obvious fact that anyone can see in any life form on this planet
Originally posted by Proper KnobWell excuse me for that error. It was late and not able to sleep because of nerve problems in my legs and the medication I take for that is a very strong dopamine formulation for Parkinson's disease .
It means your english is bad and i have trouble understanding it.
I'll try to do better for you next time. How's that?
Originally posted by twhiteheadWe see the results in all life is what I meant. I didn't say I understood how it works.....Geeeez!
What? Just a few posts ago you admitted that you did not know. Now it is "a simple and obvious fact that anyone can see"? You are contradicting yourself over and over in just about every post you make.