1. Joined
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    01 Apr '13 18:49
    This post was originally posted in another thread (April 1st) by Agerg.

    The real April fools joke (that's been running for the last several thousand years)...

    your god doesn't exist...you, your family, your friends, your ancestors, indeed probably more than half the people who have ever lived have wasted a hefty proportion of their lifetime bowing down to kiss the imaginary arse of some god or other --- [b]for nothing!!!
    [/b]

    For the several months I have been posting, several individuals (presumed atheists) that frequent this forum have put the onus of proving the existence of God on the Christian. With many different posters putting forth their ideas and beliefs, only to be ridiculed and belittled for the answers to your questions... I would like to flip the table and put the burden of proof on the atheist and ask...

    Prove there is no God!

    I think with all the certainty that you believe that there is no God, proving it should be easy to do?
  2. Cape Town
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    01 Apr '13 19:00
    Originally posted by kd2acz
    I think with all the certainty that you believe that there is no God, proving it should be easy to do?
    Define God. The main reason why it is next to impossible to disprove the existence of God, is that the definition is so flexible as to allow just about anything.
    However, the God you believe in, is not so loosely defined and his existence can easily be disproved. Whether or not you accept the proof is another matter.
    You might also want to define existence while we are about it.
  3. Cape Town
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    01 Apr '13 19:04
    For starters, if you define God, as the entity described in the Bible, then its simple. The Bible contains contradictory descriptions of an entity, and since a contradictory entity cannot exist, God does not exist.
  4. Joined
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    01 Apr '13 19:172 edits
    Originally posted by kd2acz
    This post was originally posted in another thread (April 1st) by Agerg.

    [quote][b]The real April fools joke (that's been running for the last several thousand years)...

    your god doesn't exist...you, your family, your friends, your ancestors, indeed probably more than half the people who have ever lived have wasted a hefty proportion of their lifetime b ...[text shortened]... with all the certainty that you believe that there is no God, proving it should be easy to do?
    This isn't a proof, it is a thought experiment that IMO we should consider prior to the quest for a proof.

    1) Is it agreed by atheists and theists alike, that a number of gods that have been believed to exist, do not exist? It seems to me that it is agreed.

    2) How have we proven that the ones we believe do not exist, do not exist?

    3) Is that methodology acceptable WRT the god under consideration here? Why or why not?
  5. Joined
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    01 Apr '13 19:21
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Define God. The main reason why it is next to impossible to disprove the existence of God, is that the definition is so flexible as to allow just about anything.
    However, the God you believe in, is not so loosely defined and his existence can easily be disproved. Whether or not you accept the proof is another matter.
    You might also want to define existence while we are about it.
    My goodness, I should have expected such an answer. I think you can glean from what I am talking about when I speak of God. Feel free to look back over the many threads in which dialog has taken place between atheists and Christians about the existence of God, there are many.

    However, the God you believe in, is not so loosely defined and his existence can easily be disproved. Whether or not you accept the proof is another matter


    Easily disprove it then, I think we can all decide for ourselves if your proof is plausible.

    You might also want to define existence while we are about it


    I AM, Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End, The Holy One of Israel, Etc.

    “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”

    Revelation 1:8
    New International Version (NIV)

    This is the definition of God I am referring to.
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    01 Apr '13 19:26
    Originally posted by kd2acz
    This post was originally posted in another thread (April 1st) by Agerg.

    [quote][b]The real April fools joke (that's been running for the last several thousand years)...

    your god doesn't exist...you, your family, your friends, your ancestors, indeed probably more than half the people who have ever lived have wasted a hefty proportion of their lifetime b ...[text shortened]... with all the certainty that you believe that there is no God, proving it should be easy to do?
    If god is all powerful and omnipotent,can he make a rock that he cannot lift?
  7. Joined
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    01 Apr '13 19:29
    Originally posted by OdBod
    If god is all powerful and omnipotent,can he make a rock that he cannot lift?
    Yer barking up the wrong tree!
  8. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
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    01 Apr '13 19:491 edit
    Originally posted by kd2acz
    This post was originally posted in another thread (April 1st) by Agerg.

    [quote]The real April fools joke (that's been running for the last several thousand years)...

    your god doesn't exist...you, your family, your friends, your ancestors, indeed probably more than half the people who have ever lived have wasted a hefty proportion of their lifetime b with all the certainty that you believe that there is no God, proving it should be easy to do?
    Having no belief in god is not the same as believing there is no god. The difference between them is the reason the burden of proof remains solely with the theist.
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    01 Apr '13 19:58
    Originally posted by kd2acz
    Yer barking up the wrong tree!
    Why is that then? I was merely pointing out that your god cannot exist within a logical framework and that as we need to apply logic in order to survive,I think your god is pointless.
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    01 Apr '13 19:59
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Having no belief in god is not the same as believing there is no god. The difference between them is the reason the burden of proof remains solely with the theist.
    I think there are those that frequent this forum that fit into the latter category, it is this group that I am asking the OP of. Thanks for pointing out the differences.
  11. Cape Town
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    01 Apr '13 20:10
    Originally posted by kd2acz
    I think you can glean from what I am talking about when I speak of God.
    No, clearly not, hence my request for a definition.

    Feel free to look back over the many threads in which dialog has taken place between atheists and Christians about the existence of God, there are many.
    And in many of those threads I prove that those Gods do not exist. So why this thread? Obviously you have a different definition in mind, or you do not accept my previous proofs.

    Easily disprove it then, I think we can all decide for ourselves if your proof is plausible.
    I need to know what God you believe in, as every theist has a different version. The hardest part of course is that every theist has a flexible version ie when I show that God with a particular property cannot exist, you will simply say, well my God is everything except that property, hence the phrase 'God of the gaps'.

    I AM, Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End, The Holy One of Israel, Etc.
    [b] “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”

    Revelation 1:8
    New International Version (NIV)
    This is the definition of God I am referring to.[/b]
    Sorry, but that is so open to interpretation that I cannot accept it. At face value its self contradictory and no further proof is needed, but that depends on your subtle interpretation of each word, and the phrases as a whole. What does 'Almighty' even mean? When OdBod asked for clarification, you tried to side step it.
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    01 Apr '13 20:241 edit
    Originally posted by kd2acz
    This post was originally posted in another thread (April 1st) by Agerg.

    [quote]The real April fools joke (that's been running for the last several thousand years)...

    your god doesn't exist...you, your family, your friends, your ancestors, indeed probably more than half the people who have ever lived have wasted a hefty proportion of their lifetime b with all the certainty that you believe that there is no God, proving it should be easy to do?
    The best way to silence those atheists that request that you provide some evidential considerations and justification for your theistic belief would be to simply provide some compelling, considered argument for your theistic belief. I mean you do have good reasons in virtue of which you believe...right?

    The best arguments against your conception of God (some traditional Christian conception) would be things like the Problem of Evil, the Problem of Ignorance, the Euthyphro Dilemma, The Problem of Action. Studied any of these? If you actually have any genuine interest in such arguments; if you're not just posturing here; then why not do some relevant literature research? You can PM me if you'd like some references.
  13. Joined
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    01 Apr '13 20:24
    Originally posted by OdBod
    Why is that then? I was merely pointing out that your god cannot exist within a logical framework and that as we need to apply logic in order to survive,I think your god is pointless.
    This is an omnipotence paradox and proves nothing except we go around and around in circles. Do you think it is possible that man in all his wisdom does not have it all figured out?

    I was merely pointing out that your god cannot exist within a logical framework and that as we need to apply logic in order to survive


    Logic to survive?

    God is spirit and does not exist within anything, that would be equivalent to putting him in a box. He has no boundaries, cannot be captured, and cannot be limited to man's reasoning or imaginations.
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    01 Apr '13 20:34
    Originally posted by kd2acz
    This is an omnipotence paradox and proves nothing except we go around and around in circles. Do you think it is possible that man in all his wisdom does not have it all figured out?

    I was merely pointing out that your god cannot exist within a logical framework and that as we need to apply logic in order to survive


    Logic to survive?
    ...[text shortened]... as no boundaries, cannot be captured, and cannot be limited to man's reasoning or imaginations.
    There's no paradox. The theist answers "No" to the question and there is no problem here for the theist.

    If you are looking for arguments to be taken seriously against your theistic belief, the rock question doesn't provide any.
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    01 Apr '13 20:44
    Originally posted by kd2acz
    My goodness, I should have expected such an answer. I think you can glean from what I am talking about when I speak of God. Feel free to look back over the many threads in which dialog has taken place between atheists and Christians about the existence of God, there are many.

    [quote]However, the God you believe in, is not so loosely defined and his exist ...[text shortened]... elation 1:8
    New International Version (NIV)

    This is the definition of God I am referring to.
    Do you believe any gods other than this one exist?

    If not, why not?

    Maybe we can see if the same reasons apply to this god.
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