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Kevin,
I noticed from Watchman Nee's early study of Matthew he said the white horse and rider in Revelation 6 probably pointed to false Christs.
"The white horse of the first seal of Revelation 6:2 probably points to a fake Christ. (cf. Matt. 24:5)."
[ The King and the Kingdom of the Heavens. Watchman Nee, ,CFP, pg. 308 ]
Interesting difference from Brother Lee's exposition in The Life Study of Revelation.
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Originally posted by sonshiphmmm Yes I see it. But he only just said "probably"
Kevin,
I noticed from Watchman Nee's early study of Matthew he said the white horse and rider in Revelation 6 probably pointed to false Christs.
"The white horse of the first seal of Revelation 6:2 probably points to a fake Christ. (cf. Matt. 24:5)."
[ [b]The King and the Kingdom of the Heavens. Watchman Nee, ,CF ...[text shortened]...
Interesting difference from Brother Lee's exposition in The Life Study of Revelation. [/b]
Originally posted by sonshipI'm glad to save you. I find his exposition about the White horse, published by LSM:
Kevin,
I noticed from Watchman Nee's early study of Matthew he said the white horse and rider in Revelation 6 probably pointed to false Christs.
"The white horse of the first seal of Revelation 6:2 probably points to a fake Christ. (cf. Matt. 24:5)."
[ [b]The King and the Kingdom of the Heavens. Watchman Nee, ,CF ...[text shortened]...
Interesting difference from Brother Lee's exposition in The Life Study of Revelation. [/b]
I. THE FIRST SEAL—THE WHITE HORSE
(REVELATION6:1-2)
"And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures saying like the sound of thunder, Come. And I saw, and behold, a white horse, and he who sits on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went forth conquering and to conquer."
Four horses are declared by four living creatures. We do not as yet know the meaning of this. Perhaps they are declared by four living creatures because there are four horses.
Who does the "white horse" signify? Three different explanations have been offered:
(1)It signifies Antichrist. This school gives three reasons for its assertion: (a) Christ will not be riding on a white horse until chapter nineteen; therefore, this is not Christ here. (b) In speaking of the tribulation, Matthew 24 mentions four things, one of them being false Christs; therefore, it should be Antichrist here. (c) There is a bow but no arrow. This shows that there is no real victory.
(2)It signifies an international peace treaty. The reasons given by this school are: (a) White signifies righteousness; hence, the saints wear white garments, and the Lord rides on a white horse. Peace comes through righteousness. (b) The bow without arrows signifies peace. By these we see that what we have here is the maintaining of international stability and peace by the power of righteousness.
(3)It signifies Christ. The reasons are: (a) Since the One who sits on the white horse in chapter nineteen is Christ, the One who sits on the white horse in chapter six must also be Christ, whom God crowns. (b) Since the other three horses are given power and authority by God, the first horse must also be given power by God and be crowned by God. Who could that be except Christ? (c) Only Christ goes forth "conquering and to conquer." (d) He carries a bow before He puts on a crown. If there is a bow, there had to be arrows. Since at this time there is only a bow, it means that the arrows have already been shot and that the devil has already been injured. Therefore, God has crowned Him and given Him glory. (e) Among the four horses, only in Revelation 6:4 is the word "another" used. We see from this that the last three horses are different from the first horse. (f) In God's plan the first thing is His Son's victory, the victory of the gospel. (The living creatures say, "Come." In an old manuscript "come" is rendered "go," because the four living creatures do not speak in an imperative tone.)
Which of the above three assertions is correct? Of course, the third one is more reasonable (the one referring to Christ). Hence, our conclusion is that the white horse signifies Christ.
Collected Works of Watchman Nee, The (Set 1) Vol. 16: Study on Revelation
by Watchman Nee
Originally posted by Kevin Lee PoracanThat's humility.
hmmm Yes I see it. But he only just said "probably"
But such Life ministered in the book.
Always Christ exalting, always exalting Christ and turning our hearts to Christ.
I prefer Brother Lee's interpretation. You know they impresioned Brother Nee for 20 years of his life.
Meanwhile Brother Lee was freer to explore the Word.
I think on this view of the first horse and rider the preaching of the Gospel is the better view.
Whether Nee was able to explore more while in a Communist prison for 20 years, I do nto know. But I believe that we are still living off of his prayers for the churches.
That is for sure.
Originally posted by sonshipUnless you retract your accusations against Witness Lee I have no burden to attempt to help you.
Originally posted by sonship to RJHinds
I am totally not discouraged by anything you have to say about your idea of "Witness Lee's Local Church Cult". I would be concerned if the local churches did not have some bad press from traditional Christianity. That would concern me more.
Originally posted by Rajk999 to sonship
Maybe if you can get your head out of your behind you will realise that you are not here to teach anybody. This is disucssion forum where people present their OPINIONS or in your case the opinion of some man who you have placed up on a pedestal. The fact that nobody wants to kneel down before Witness Less along with you is clearly making you frustrated.
Originally posted by Kevin Lee PoracanI do not know if this is true, but I heard that Witness Lee became a ghost writer for Watchman Nee to change what Wachman Nee had taught.
I'm glad to save you. I find his exposition about the White horse, published by LSM:
I. THE FIRST SEAL—THE WHITE HORSE
(REVELATION6:1-2)
"And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures saying like the sound of thunder, Come. And I saw, and behold, a white horse, and he who sits on it had a ...[text shortened]... t.
Collected Works of Watchman Nee, The (Set 1) Vol. 16: Study on Revelation
by Watchman Nee
Here are my opinions on the Seals of Revelation 6
The Four Horses Begins The Great Tribulation
I believe the revealing of the White Horse and Rider is first, because it is the prominent feature that begins the endtimes events leading right in to the tribulations of those days. This Rider on the White Horse is the spirit of the Antichrist or the Mahdi, savior of Islam, who rides in peacefully with a bow, signifying a position of strength, but with no arrows, so that he can deceive Israel into thinking he has peaceful intentions. So he is given a crown and declared King for his ability to negotiate peaceful agreements and goes about conguering and conquering by the deception of peace.
The peace from the White Horseman is short lived, because the Jihad spirit of the Red Horse and Rider is unleased by which they kill each other because of their sharia law and inability to remain peaceful with each other and because of their hatred of Israel and Christians. So they are gathered to go to war against Israel causing great shedding of blood by war, which is symbolized by the great sword.
But before these two Horsemen can finish their ride, a Black Horse and Rider is unleashed that is another demonic spirit of Islam with the intentions of toppling the economic systems of the Capitalist Christians and Jews by attacking their commerce. All this leads to economic hardship for those not having the ability to buy and sell throught the mark of the beast empire of Islam. However, they are not allowed to harm the servants of God, symbolized by the oil and wine.
Then finally, the Pale Green Horse or Speckled Horse and Rider represents the full release of the Islamic demon spirits to wreak havoc in the Great tribulation period with all four horsemen riding with the intent to conquer Israel and the whole world with every means possible. Satan's wrath is now fully unleashed at this time through the Islamic beast empire.
The Fifth Seal—Vision of the Souls of the Martyrs waiting for the judgment of the wicked living on the earth.
When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also.
(Revelation 6:9-11 NASB)
The Sixth Seal—FEAR OF THE COMING WRATH OF THE GREAT DAY OF THE LORD
I looked when He broke the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the whole moon became like blood; and the stars of the sky fell to the earth, as a fig tree casts its unripe figs when shaken by a great wind. The sky was split apart like a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. Then the kings of the earth and the great men and the commanders and the rich and the strong and every slave and free man hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains; and they *said to the mountains and to the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb; for the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”
(Revelation 6:12-16 NASB)
"I will display wonders in the sky and on the earth, Blood, fire and columns of smoke.
"The sun will be turned into darkness And the moon into blood Before the great and awesome day of the LORD comes.
(Joel 2:30-31 NASB)
“But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
(Matthew 24:29-31 NASB)
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
(1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 NASB)
I suspect that all of these are referring to the same event, that is, the coming of the Lord which is revealed to be immediately after the tribulation.
A solar eclipse can result in the sun be darkened and a lunar eclispe can results in the moon not giving its light or looking red like blood.
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Originally posted by RJHindsBut things return to normal after those events. Sorry, no tribulations THIS century. Or the next. Or the next. Or the next. And never in the last 2000 years as you well now. Mankind might achieve godhood all on their own way before this alleged god you worship gets around to it, and then the surprised look on your god's face when it finds out humans are now as powerful as it.
I do not know if this is true, but I heard that Witness Lee became a ghost writer for Watchman Nee to change what Wachman Nee had taught.
Here are my opinions on the Seals of Revelation 6
[b]The Four Horses Begins The Great Tribulation
I believe the revealing of the White Horse and Rider is first, because it is the prominent feature that begins ...[text shortened]... ened and a lunar eclispe can results in the moon not giving its light or looking red like blood.[/b]
Its OUR turn now, you worthless deity.
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Originally posted by sonhouseYou or I may not live to see it, but I believe some born this century will.
But things return to normal after those events. Sorry, no tribulations THIS century. Or the next. Or the next. Or the next. And never in the last 2000 years as you well now. Mankind might achieve godhood all on their own way before this alleged god you worship gets around to it, and then the surprised look on your god's face when it finds out humans are now as powerful as it.
Its OUR turn now, you worthless deity.
We know not the day or the hour. We ought to be always upon our watch, in expectation of his return. This applies to Christ's coming to us at our death, as well as to the general judgment. In general, we know not whether our Master will come in the days of youth, or middle age, or old age; but, we must expect death. Our great care must be, that, whenever our Lord comes, he may not find us mindless of our work and duty. He says to all, Watch, that you may be found in peace, without spot, and blameless.
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Originally posted by sonhouseAdam to Abraham 2000+/-
But things return to normal after those events. Sorry, no tribulations THIS century. Or the next. Or the next. Or the next. And never in the last 2000 years as you well now. Mankind might achieve godhood all on their own way before this alleged god you worship gets around to it, and then the surprised look on your god's face when it finds out humans are now as powerful as it.
Its OUR turn now, you worthless deity.
Abraham to Jesus 2000+/-
Jesus to 1000 years reign 2000+/-
1000 years reign to eternity 1000+/-
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Originally posted by RJHinds
I do not know if this is true, but I heard that Witness Lee became a ghost writer for Watchman Nee to change what Wachman Nee had taught.
Ah. You don't know whether it is true. But in the mean time it is good handy dandy dirt to toss up in the air.
What is the difference between you and the rumor mongers which hounded Jesus about being drunken, demon possessed, a winebibber, a mental case, keeping company with harlots and tax collectors, saying He'd destroy the temple, seeking to not pay taxes and revolt against Rome, etc, etc.
What's the difference between you and the opposing Jews who followed Paul from town to town in Acts poisoning the people's minds against his ministry.
Not much difference.
And NO, I am not making Jesus and Witness Lee equal. Don't try it.
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Originally posted by RJHindsWitness Lee is just a potato brother, a bondslave of Christ and he is nothing. Only Christ is everything in our Christian life!
[b]I do not know if this is true, but I heard that Witness Lee became a ghost writer for Watchman Nee to change what Wachman Nee had taught.
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Originally posted by Kevin Lee PoracanI think RJHinds simply took the lazy way out of a discussion on some Scriptural matter. I think when he could not deal too well with my points, he just seized upon a quotation and started to throw the "cult" word around.
Witness Lee is just a potato brother, a bondslave of Christ and he is nothing. Only Christ is everything in our Christian life!
This seemed to me to be a short cut. Just throw "cult" out there and you really don't have to deal with the Scriptures do you ?
It was convenient, trollish, and a short cut to careful examination.
Most of all I think whatever is conservative and traditional, he assumes must be truer.
Originally posted by sonshipIf Jesus and Witness Lee are not equal, then we must take into account that Witness Lee could be one of those false teachers that were spoken of that would come into the Church to deceive and draw disciples away to himself.I do not know if this is true, but I heard that Witness Lee became a ghost writer for Watchman Nee to change what Wachman Nee had taught.
Ah. You don't know whether it is true. But in the mean time it is good handy dandy dirt to toss up in the air.
What is the difference between you and the rumor mongers which hounded Jesus about b ...[text shortened]...
Not much difference.
And NO, I am not making Jesus and Witness Lee equal. Don't try it.
In that case, we should not be so quick to dismiss every rumor as false. We should keep rumor and accusations in mind until we have heard more evidence, for and against, and weigh them in the balance.