1. Standard memberRBHILL
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    13 Aug '14 21:38
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    Starts at 8/1/14 about 25 minutes each.

    If we know that there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, why would we be here for the seven years of tribulation and possibly die from wrath of God?
  2. Standard membersonship
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    13 Aug '14 22:48
    Originally posted by RBHILL
    http://ptv.org/radio/radio-broadcasts/

    Starts at 8/1/14 about 25 minutes each.

    If we know that there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, why would we be here for the seven years of tribulation and possibly die from wrath of God?
    The entire church will not be raptured pre-tribulation.
    Some will.

    We can practice by being mini-raptured away from temptations by turning to the Lord Jesus and whisked away in the Spirit from ourselves.

    I believe that rapture physical will be easy for those who practice to let the indwelling Lord Jesus rise up within them and snatch them away from daily temptations.

    So we need practice.
    When you are about to lose your temper with someone in traffic, practice rapture. Practice instead on calling on the name of the Lord Jesus "Oh Lord Jesus, I love you, I praise you Lord."

    You will be snatched away from your self and into God.
    You will be raptured from your old man and whisked away into the Holy Spirit.

    I am serious. We Christians need to practice rapture. That is to practice being in a happy state with the Lord Jesus instead of in ourelves.

    Rapture means a kind of ecstatic joy or happiness. When we are in the heat of some troublesome situation in which we want to react in our old man, we need to TURN to the Lord within and be happy with His presence. It is not hard when we turn to the Lord Jesus by calling on His name.

    We can practice being caught up in a happiness in the Lord Jesus which saves us.

    None of us know exactly how rapture will really occur. But you can believe that we have some foretaste if we are faithful to turn our hearts to the Lord to flee the world, the flesh, and the devil.

    Building up a habbit of enduring through tribulation by enjoying Jesus Christ instead will be rewarded. Some will have a pre-tribulation rapture and be saved out of the very hour of the world wide trial.

    "Because you have kept the word of My endurance, I also will keep you out of the hour of trial, which is about to come on the whole inhabited earth, to try them who dwell on the earth." (Rev. 3:10)

    One more crucial thing. This word was spoken to the church in Philadelphia. These were not spiritual giants. They were little folks which had only a little strength and a lot of love for each other. Hence they are called Brotherly Love - "Philadelphia" .

    This matter of early rapture is not for an elite of particularly POWERFUL spiritual gaints. Look what Jesus says -

    " ... because you have a little power and have kept My word and have not denied my name..." (Rev. 3:8)

    Did you see that? This promise of an open door into the kingdom and a pre-tribulation rapture is to those who had a little strength. Though they have a little strength, they have enough to be faithful to Christ's name and endure through His grace.

    This is marvelous. All we need is to not deny His name and endure through enjoying His indwelling presence. He is the mighty One. He is the powerful one.
  3. Standard membersonship
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    14 Aug '14 12:571 edit
    Originally posted by RBHILL
    http://ptv.org/radio/radio-broadcasts/

    Starts at 8/1/14 about 25 minutes each.

    If we know that there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, why would we be here for the seven years of tribulation and possibly die from wrath of God?
    Romans 8:1 says this -

    "There is now then no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus."

    My question is: What "condemnation" is Paul talking about?

    The best answer is that Paul is speaking of the SELF condemnation which he has just elaborated on in the preceding chapter 7. There in chapter 7 Paul concludes his vain struggling to keep the law with these words of self condemnation -

    "Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from the body of this death?" This is Paul's self condemnation because he cannot do what he wills but some force makes him do what he does not will. That is to sin even though his mind is against it.

    So, salvation from this self condemnation is in Christ Jesus -

    "Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from the body of this death? Thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh, the law of sin." (vs.24,25)

    Jesus Christ delivers from this self condemnation -

    "There is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus." (8:1)

    But the reason there is no longer this self condemnation, this feeling of wretchedness, is because of utilizing the law of the Spirit of divine life in the way of WALKING not in the flesh but in the regenerated spirit.

    "There is now then no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. FOR the law of the Spirit of life has freed me in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and of death.

    For that which the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, sending His own Son in the likeness of the flesh of sin and concerning sin condemned sin in the flesh,

    That the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the spirit." (Rom. 8:1-4)


    1.) No doubt we are saved from eternal damnation's condemnation.

    2.) But Romans 8 is about the salvation from self condemnation, self wretchedness, by means of WALKING in the Spirit who is in our spirit.
  4. Standard memberRJHinds
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    14 Aug '14 13:29
    Originally posted by RBHILL
    http://ptv.org/radio/radio-broadcasts/

    Starts at 8/1/14 about 25 minutes each.

    If we know that there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, why would we be here for the seven years of tribulation and possibly die from wrath of God?
    According to the pastor, the believers will be raptured before the wrath of God. He believes the wrath of God is different from the tribulation (Great Tribulation).

    I suppose the believers will be tried and tested in the tribulation. The tribulation appears to take place in Revelation 6. I believe Revelation 8 may begin the wrath of God.
  5. Standard memberRajk999
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    14 Aug '14 13:371 edit
    Originally posted by sonship
    Romans 8:1 says this -

    [b]"There is now then no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus."
    The important part of that passage is what it means "to be in Christ. It is interesting that you omit half of the verse and I would guess the other half condemns your doctrine hence you ignore it :

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

    In fact the next few verses explain in detail that :
    walking after the flesh = carnal = sin = death,
    walking after the spirit = righteousness = life.

    So there are some who claim to be in Christ but walk after the flesh, and that leads to death.
    There aer some who walk after the Spirit and that leads to life.
  6. Standard memberRajk999
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    14 Aug '14 13:481 edit
    Originally posted by sonship
    .."Oh Lord Jesus, I love you, I praise you Lord."
    Christ never said that he is interested in talk or calling his name the way you describe. Calling his name means something. I will allow Christ to explain what he means.

    Mat_7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

    Did you read that. Taking Christ name in vain means nothing. Doing the will of God is what matters .. doing righteousness, refraining from son, doing good works and following Christ commandments.

    Here is another:

    And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great. (Luke 6:46-49 KJV)

    You are a very good example of someone who preaches to people that all they have to do is call on the name of the Lord and theywill be saved [or something along those lines]. You have actually said that following Christ commandment is legalistic and not required.

    Christ is saying why call on me when you refuse to obey my commandments. Take note.
  7. Standard membersonship
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    14 Aug '14 14:302 edits
    The important part of that passage is what it means "to be in Christ. It is interesting that you omit half of the verse and I would guess the other half condemns your doctrine hence you ignore it :


    If I write too much, this poster accuses me of being blah, blah, blah, blah boring.

    If I try to abbreviate my writing by quoting the most pertinent portion of a passage, he accuses me of purposely suppressing part of the passage.



    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.


    There is the passage in its entirety. Actually, the continuation establishes my point.

    The self condemnation is overcome by walking in the sphere and realm of Christ Jesus. I said exactly that when I did quote all the way down to verse 4.

    Verse 4 - " That the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the spirit."

    I must warn readers that Rajk999 is kind of a "sore looser". When he is refuted on one point in which he errs, he goes silent. He just opens up some other attack which he hopes will be effective. In this case it is not.

    My point simply was that "no condemnation" in 8:1 best understood in context, refers back to the self feeling of wretched hopelessness of law the law keeping effort.

    The solution is walking by the Spirit in the regenerated human spirit.



    In fact the next few verses explain in detail that :
    walking after the flesh = carnal = sin = death,
    walking after the spirit = righteousness = life.


    In the post that Rajk999 is reponding to (supposedly), I already expounded down pretty much, to verse 4.

    The "death" in verse 6 is the "death" of being separated practically from the freedom and life in God. The Christian who does not set his mind on the spirit where the Spirit of Jesus is, is experiencing some "death". The same kind of death is being experience in which Paul said -

    "Who will deliver me from the body of this DEATH"

    Once born of God and justified from eternal condemnation forever, to fulfill God's purpose the child of God must learn to set his mind on the spirit and walk by the Spirit in his regenerated spirit.

    In so walking, step by step, he is free from self condemnation.


    So there are some who claim to be in Christ but walk after the flesh, and that leads to death.
    There aer some who walk after the Spirit and that leads to life.


    The meaning is that ANYTIME we are not walking by the Holy Spirit we are in death. And those distracting people from Christ and turning them to try to be justified by the flesh keeping the law, are spreading spiritual death.
  8. Subscribersonhouse
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    14 Aug '14 14:48
    Originally posted by sonship
    The important part of that passage is what it means "to be in Christ. It is interesting that you omit half of the verse and I would guess the other half condemns your doctrine hence you ignore it :


    If I write too much, this poster accuses me of being blah, blah, blah, blah boring.

    If I try to abbreviate my writing by quoting the mos ...[text shortened]... turning them to try to be justified by the flesh keeping the law, are spreading spiritual death.
    The sad part is everyone believing this utter BS as if it were real. That is the problem with these religions, acting as if this crap is real. Being obsessed with religion is the reason we have religious wars. All you have to do to see that is look at ISAS or Boko Haram and the like to see those dudes are pathologically obsessed with their religion to the point where they have no qualms about beheading the so-called infidels. As if those people they are slaughtering as we speak were some kind of animal in line to be butchered.

    That is what religious obsession leads to.
  9. Standard memberRajk999
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    14 Aug '14 14:501 edit
    Originally posted by sonship
    I must warn readers that Rajk999 is kind of a "sore looser". When he is refuted on one point in which he errs, he goes silent. He just opens up some other attack which he hopes will be effective. In this case it is not.
    Sore loser? I have explained nothing and everything I said is directly from Christ and Paul.
    So you believe that you have refuted Christ and Paul. Good for you.

    The Bible says 1+1=2, while you continue to explain and expand and enlarge on the 'proof' of the equation 1+1=3.

    There is a sucker born every day that will believe you.
    There are those that of Christ and who are in Christ who the Bible refers to as the elect who cannot be fooled.
  10. Standard membersonship
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    14 Aug '14 14:561 edit
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Sore loser? I have explained nothing and everything I said is directly from Christ and Paul.
    So you believe that you have refuted Christ and Paul. Good for you.

    The Bible says 1+1=2, while you continue to explain and expand and enlarge on the 'proof' of the equation 1+1=3.

    There is a sucker born every day that will believe you.
    There are those that of Christ and who are in Christ who the Bible refers to the elect who cannot be fooled.
    Sore loser? I have explained nothing and everything I said is directly from Christ and Paul.


    This thread, I believe, is on the subject matter of Rapture. It is not on your favorite and indeed ONLY talking point - Once Under the Law Always Under the Law.

    Must you morph every thread into a debate about Arminian elevator salvation ?

    What ever the subject you soon enough get around to boasting of your "More Justified Than Thou" endless debate with OSAS.

    I do believe that this thread was about "Yes Pre-trib Rapture".

    You must be terribly miserable whenever you get around Christians.
  11. Standard memberRajk999
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    14 Aug '14 14:58
    Originally posted by sonship
    Sore loser? I have explained nothing and everything I said is directly from Christ and Paul.


    This thread, I believe, is on the subject matter of Rapture. It is not on your favorite and indeed ONLY talking point - [b]Once Under the Law Always Under the Law
    .

    Must you morph every thread into a debate about Arminian elevator salvat ...[text shortened]... s Pre-trib Rapture"[/b].

    You must be terribly miserable whenever you get around Christians.[/b]
    I am terribly miserable when I am around false teachers.
  12. Standard membersonship
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    14 Aug '14 15:012 edits
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    The sad part is everyone believing this utter BS as if it were real. That is the problem with these religions, acting as if this crap is real. Being obsessed with religion is the reason we have religious wars. All you have to do to see that is look at ISAS or Boko Haram and the like to see those dudes are pathologically obsessed with their religion to the p ...[text shortened]... were some kind of animal in line to be butchered.

    That is what religious obsession leads to.
    The sad part is ..."


    Don't feel sad for me.

    Go look into the mirror. See that guy in your mirror? You can feel sad for that guy if he doesn't become washed in the blood of Jesus' redemption from all of his sins.

    That's the guy you can feel sad for, indeed.

    Better yet, better than looking into the mirror, open your heart and look into the mirror of the word of God. Stand next to the Lord Jesus Christ and compare yourself with Him.

    Then when you reflect it will become a very positive reflection of receiving Jesus as Lord and Savior.

    I got saved. I think you should get saved too.
  13. Standard membersonship
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    14 Aug '14 15:174 edits
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    I am terribly miserable when I am around false teachers.
    I am terribly miserable when I am around false teachers.


    This thread is on Yes Pre-Tribulation Rapture.

    See if you can make your posts about that.

    ===============================================
    To the rest of the readers, especially my Christian brothers and sisters, I write this:

    Does this passage mean that everyone in the world will not perish but have eternal life:

    "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that every one who believes into Him would not perish, but would have eternal life." (John 3:16)

    If, dear Christian, you agree that this is a conditional blessing based upon something, then how about this passage:

    "Because you have kept the word of My endurance, I also will keep you out of the hour of trial, which is about to come on the whole inhabited earth, to try them who dwell on the earth." (Rev. 3:10)

    If John 3:16 should not mean that everyone in the world has eternal life on what basis should we believe that Revelation 3:10 means everyone in the church on earth will be kept from the hour of the great tribulation ?

    I think BOTH passages speak of a blessing because a conditional requirement has been met.
  14. Subscribersonhouse
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    14 Aug '14 15:312 edits
    Originally posted by sonship
    The sad part is ..."


    Don't feel sad for me.

    Go look into the mirror. See that guy in your mirror? You can feel sad for that guy if he doesn't become washed in the blood of Jesus' redemption from all of his sins.

    That's the guy you can feel sad for, indeed.

    Better yet, better than looking into the mirror, open your heart and l ...[text shortened]... ection of receiving Jesus as Lord and Savior.

    I got saved. I think you should get saved too.
    As usual, you missed my message completely. I said the sad part is the obsession with religion that leads to war like what is happening right now with the Islam fighters.

    I can look myself in the mirror quite nicely thank you, I have no qualms and no fears about being sent to heaven or hell.

    I don't like the idea of either place, they BOTH suck bigtime.

    The sooner humans realize all this religious bullshyte is just man made and NOTHING more, the sooner the human race can fully mature.

    You have to admit the human race is in a rut right now, in terrible condition, that you can see with this religious strife going on all around the world, to say nothing of secular strife like in the Ukraine.

    This is not maturity. This is a bunch of 12 year olds fighting over religions and territory.

    And please don't come back with another ten thousand word essay on the end days, which are NOT on us and never have been and never will be.
  15. Standard membersonship
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    14 Aug '14 16:03
    Originally posted by sonhouse


    I can look myself in the mirror quite nicely thank you, I have no qualms and no fears about being sent to heaven or hell.


    Can point out where I in particular mentioned "going to heaven" ?

    For that matter can you point out my mentioning going to hell ?

    Yes, you scoff at going to heaven. Yet you do want to go to another planet. Whether you go to heaven or go to another planet, without Christ's salvation within, you are going to take yourself with you and be yourself when you get there.

    You know how sad that will be.


    I don't like the idea of either place, they BOTH suck bigtime.


    I think you are very unhappy with yourself. And you express this frustration by saying other things "suck" out there.


    The sooner humans realize all this religious bullshyte is just man made and NOTHING more, the sooner the human race can fully mature.


    Why is it that there should have been any distance to begin with with what man IS and what man needs to realize about himself ?

    How is it that there was any discrepancy making the two unequal in the first place? Why the disharmony in the first place ?


    You have to admit the human race is in a rut right now, in terrible condition, that you can see with this religious strife going on all around the world, to say nothing of secular strife like in the Ukraine.


    Christ is called "the desire of the nations" .

    One of the reasons that the nations are in strife of all kinds is because they unconsciously await "the desire of the nations" the Christ of God.

    Haggai 2:7 "And I will shake all the nations, and the Desire of all nations will come; and I will fill this house with glory, says Jehovah of hosts."

    Some of us are getting a wonderful foretaste of this Desire of all nations by being born again with the Spirit of Jesus Christ.


    This is not maturity. This is a bunch of 12 year olds fighting over religions and territory.


    Since human beings fight, why not give up on being a human being ?
    Why not also chalk up these wars as a failed experiment of the existence of human beings ?

    Why stop with saying "Bad people did awful things, So religion sucks" and go on to say "Bad people did awful things, So human race sucks" ?


    And please don't come back with another ten thousand word essay on the end days, which are NOT on us and never have been and never will be.


    You are absolutely right. Jesus did say not to cast our pearls before the hogs or give holy things to dogs.

    You will be eaten up by your unclean animal like aggression, swallowing up any spiritual sense deep in your heart.

    It is not advantageous to see your lower nature eat you up like that against God.
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