Spirituality
07 Mar 05
07 Mar 05
Originally posted by DarfiusThis statement explicitly states that #1 can undermine God; that is,
The Holy Spirit does all the work, but it still doesn't help when he does what he does.
that #1 has more power than God.
Certainly this is unChristian, no? If the Holy Spirit wants something --
if someone is a believer -- no amount of ranting on #1 can shake
their faith.
So what are you worried about? If a person is a true believer, they
will see through 'heretics' like #1 and 'cultists' like Ivanhoe (and
heretic, cultist, Father Mockers, like myself).
Nemesio
07 Mar 05
Originally posted by DarfiusI could care less if anyone becomes a Christian or not. Why do Christians feel the need the tell all that are not Christians that they will go to Hell if they don't get Saved ? You see the Christian religion is soo arrogant that they set themself up for critical comments from the heathen. It's like some Klann members telling all non whites that they are animals, and not human. It's the road to Hell or the road to Heaven according to the Christian view point. In a nut shell it's wicked religion that trys to mask their stance with some flowery language when in reality the are nothing but bigots in the first degree. Hell is a primitive concept that will always make the Christian mind set an evil one.
No1, particularly you, why do you feel the need to make sure no one else becomes a Christian? How does it harm you if they do? Why are you on a campaign to discredit everything a Christian presents?
The most obvious answer to me is that you are afraid we are right and you need assurance.
07 Mar 05
Originally posted by no1marauderWhat's the debate here? 😉
BTW No fair using "reincarnation" as a separate item in my "Triple Spiritual Switcheroo" as the other three were distinct characteristics of a single religion whereas there are various religions besides Hinduism that believe in reincarnation. Sesame Street don't like cheaters, Nemesio.
As reincarnation is necessarily distinct from Judiasm, Islam, and
Mormonism, I believe it is fair to count it as a fourth item (irrespective of the intended other religion).
In Quodestdemonstrumship,
Nemesio
07 Mar 05
1 edit
Originally posted by NemesioSince a camel cant pass through an eye of a needle , can an elephant pass gas in silence?
What's the debate here? 😉
As reincarnation is necessarily distinct from Judiasm, Islam, and
Mormonism, I believe it is fair to count it as a fourth item (irrespective of the intended other religion).
In Quodestdemonstrumship,
Nemesio
08 Mar 05
1 edit
Originally posted by no1marauderI believe the greeks believed in reicarnation also, I provided a link to that subject matter in the thread " a new religion spirtuality whatever"
I just got a post modded for "Sesame Street doesn't like cheaters"?????
No1, robomod just does'nt like you anymore.
Nyxie
edit : this has been a test of the emerrgency robomod went mad system.
08 Mar 05
Originally posted by NemesioApparently my post wasn't modded for my little "Sesame Street" joke but because n number of people didn't like this argument in response to Nemesio's post:
This statement explicitly states that #1 can undermine God; that is,
that #1 has more power than God.
Certainly this is unChristian, no? If the Holy Spirit wants something --
if someone is a believer -- no amount of ranting on #1 can shake
their faith.
So what are you worried about? If a person is a true believer, they
will see through 'hereti ...[text shortened]... 1 and 'cultists' like Ivanhoe (and
heretic, cultist, Father Mockers, like myself).
Nemesio
I noticed before that Darfius apparently believes that us mere mortals can thwart the will of his God. In discussing the Midianite Massacre in the Sickening Bible Stories thread, he said this:
If the Jews had been annihilated, you wouldn't have a Savior to deny and ridicule.
Now an all-Powerful God like the one he believes in can whip up a Savior any time he wants, can't he? Why would the arrival of said Savior be dependent on the fate of one ancient tribe of semi-savages?
[Close as I can remember; seems to be making a valid point for the Spirituality Forum, ain't it]
08 Mar 05
4 edits
Originally posted by DarfiusPro-abortion laws do not dimish the freedom of Christians to do as they please with their own lives. Such laws increase freedom. Anti-abortion laws decrease freedom.
Fair enough, now I'll show you what is imposed on Christians:
Pro-abortion laws. Attempts to make gay marriage legal (why support the extermination of the human race??). Attempting to take God out of the pledge of allegiance (that's ...[text shortened]... f our nation deteriorate faster, Christians are losing the battle.
Same with gay marriage laws. If you hadn't noticed, by the way, the world has more problems with overpopulation than underpopulation.
The Pledge of Allegience was written in 1892 and read as follows:
I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
Under God was added in the 1950's. Part of the reason for doing so was that the Roman Catholic Knights of Columbus didn't like the way it seemed to be flag worship.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_allegiance
In no way is my fighting this a "foreigner demanding natives" do anything, as I was born in the United States of America and have never been a citizen of any other country. Christians are welcome to add "under God" if they want as far as I am concerned when they say the Pledge.
Christians' inability to even bring a Bible to school.
Is that true? Well I think they should be able to bring Bibles to school. That's a dumb restriction. Can you tell me what law restricts this? I am an atheist and I am not in favor of this restriction. I'd be irritated too in your shoes about this. Actually, I already am.
Christians inability to discuss a large facet of their lives at school or work while atheists spout their beliefs 24/7.
I am unsure what you are referring to here. Can you elaborate?
A Christian President having to battle for his RIGHT to say a prayer for his presidency
I am indifferent to this issue myself at this point. I'd be willing to debate this issue so that I could take a stronger stance.
Attempts to abolish the death penalty
Christians live by "Thou Shalt Not Kill", not atheists! I am not opposed to the death penalty unless it's impractical. This is not something imposed on Christians particularly. This is an entirely political issue and in no way Christian.
Daming our nation by supporting suicide bombers, terrorists, and evil men by trying to get them their own state so they can have a base from which to attempt to drive Israel into the sea (their evident and proud goal).
I don't support suicide bombers or terrorists. Are you referring to Palestine? I don't think this is an anti-Christian issue. I feel the U.S. should for the most part stay out of the Middle East's squabbles. It's a political issue and not based on atheism. However, some Christians (and of course Jews, who use the Old Testament too) support Israel for religious reasons. Anyway, supporting the creation of a Palestinian state is not something that is imposed on Christians particularly. In what way is this a Christian issue except that some Christians want to dictate American policy based on their religion?
I am not convinced that Christians are experiencing the same political and legal impositions as non Christians.
08 Mar 05
1 edit
Originally posted by ivanhoeAs far as the abortion law is concerned you cannot deny that a human beings's life is at stake.
I can see your problem.
As far as the abortion law is concerned you cannot deny that a human beings's life is at stake. It is not unreasable for the state to defend every citizins life. Born or unborn, young or old, male or female, he ...[text shortened]... will become. I'm afraid that is a tragic misunderstanding.
I don't necessarily agree or disagree with this. This is it's own topic of debate and I won't sidetrack the discussion into this.
It is not unreasable for the state to defend every citizins life. Born or unborn, young or old, male or female, healthy or disabled.
Sure. This would be an argument based on reason, which I have no problem with. I resent the extremely strong Christian religious influence on this issue.
I don't think the state has any business in providing gay couples with children, be it adopted or otherwise.
This is not a religious perpsective you're offering necessarily. I'm cool with your perspective. I want to avoid religion making this decision.
God on the money ? Who cares ?
I do. I'm glad you don't. Does this mean you would refrain from voting on a law which would take the word God off money?
Christmas: You don't want a free holiday ? Who cares what others celebrate ?
I'd prefer it not being federally named "Christ's Mass".
Polygamy: would be a national social disaster if you would allow it.
Again, this is not a non religious argument which I am fine with.
Sex education is about informing people about biological reality so people know what causes pregnancy and disease. But again, I am fine with non religious arguments against it.
Evolution ? You think children cannot live without the notion that their grandpa was an ape ?
Evolution is the only scientific theory we have about why life exists the way it does now. Children can live without knowledge that Rome conquered the areas it conquered too. Education is about teaching kids science, history, math, English etc so they have a liberal education. I am fine with discussing the possible weaknesses of evolutionary theory but not ignoring it entirely because it is science.
Anti-sodomy laws ? Move to New York or San Francisco !
What if someone doesn't want to? What if someone wants to do his wife in the butt and she likes it and they live in some other state? Why should these people have to move to New York or San Fransisco? What possible justification does anyone have to make laws telling them they cannot do this?
Catholic Presidents (Kennedy was one): The more the merrier !
I'm afraid that's democracy.
My point is that no atheists, Muslims, or any non Christians ever get elected due to the Christian influence on this country. I don't like that.
Contraception: It is a part of ones understanding of how the sexes should treat eachother.
I don't buy that. It's about preventing sperm and eggs from getting together so that fertilization should occur. Anyway, this is between consenting individuals and it's not society's business.
If I understand you correctly, the underlying notion in your reasoning is: the more freedom is granted to people the happier they will become.
I think I agree that freedom tends to correlate with happiness, but that's not my reasoning. My reasoning is that freedom is one of the "inalienable rights" listed in the Declaration of Independence and unless there's an extremely good reason it should not be limited. I feel Christians as a political group have the desire and the power to limit freedom unnecessarily due to their religious beliefs.
08 Mar 05
Originally posted by BigDoggProblemIf anyone has a problem with any other group's political influence they are welcome to debate them and try to undermine that political bloc. I don't care.
This is wishful, even destructive, thinking.
Humans aren't beings of pure reason. Everyone has a value system and issues they feel strongly about. Even though it sounds appealing to be open-minded in your viewpoints, it's not practical to leave them in a state of flux. Personal beliefs are inevitably going to play a part in how people vote.
It ...[text shortened]... others, but a look at court decisions and laws shows influence from different perspectives.
08 Mar 05
Christians' inability to even bring a Bible to school.
I just want to let Thousand know that this is a lie. Xtian students are welcome to bring a Bible to school. They can even have Bible study clubs and prayer meetings at school before classes start. You can even pray quietly to yourself during class hours if you wish as long as you are not disturbing other students or taking away from the lesson being presented. A high school sweetheart of mine did all of these things at her public school.
There is a lot of Xtian propaganda out there meant to excite fundamentalists about the end times. The bolded above is just one example. Falsehoods like "You can get arrested for praying in school," or "Talk about Jesus is illegal at school," are also popular.