For the non-Christians.

Originally posted by Nemesio
Your trolling knows no bounds.

How do you look at yourself in the mirror, Ivanhoe?

Nemesio

You mocking the God of Abraham and the Christian faith knows no bounds.

Originally posted by ivanhoe
You mocking the God of Abraham and the Christian faith knows no bounds.

Your every post is a mockery, Ivanhoe. A mockery of reason
and religion.

It's a feat that few people achieve.

God knows when I am mocking Him. Obviously, you don't
know when I am mocking you.

Ite Postus Est,
Nemesio

Originally posted by Nemesio
Your every post is a mockery, Ivanhoe. A mockery of reason
and religion.

It's a feat that few people achieve.

God knows when I am mocking Him. Obviously, you don't
know when I am mocking you.

Ite Postus Est,
Nemesio

You're a Mormon, right ?

Originally posted by Darfius
Hmm, you didn't answer my question.

The question was directed to someone else. If I were no1, I'd have to object because it's a leading question.

Now here's the next step: Don't assume the other side hasn't also done their homework.

Originally posted by Nemesio
The question is unjust, because people who call themselves Christian
are 'cultists' in your mind. For example, all of the liturgical churches
(i.e., RC, Lutheran, Anglican, Eastern Rites, &c), as well as all of the
ones who have an avant-gard theological construct (Congregationalist,
Christian Scientist, Mormon).

By your demeanor and words, you h ...[text shortened]... at
they write, but they write with love to the best of their ability to express it.

Nemesio

This is basically what I was saying when I claimed that Darfius is not a "True Christian" and lies about the Bible.

He runs around here condemning most of his fellow "believers" (Here I mean non-born again, but followers of christ nonetheless), only to be exposed repeatly as intellectual destitute concerning the very premises from which he bases his claims. We have demonstrated over and over that his original scorn for evolutionary biology is unwarranted. Some on this site have exposed the severe lack of understanding on his part of the Bible and its origins. Still others have continually corrected his errors concerning ancient history.

Now an honest individual would slow down a bit and ponder after so many embarrasing errors, but not only does Darfius regurgitate similar fallacies, but worst of all he has the audacity to persist with condemning other sects. That was what I was saying.

And on that note 🙂

Is it true, Darfius, that you are having second thoughts about evolution and are considering whether or not evolution and your faith are in fact mutually exclusive ideas?

Originally posted by Nemesio
Your every post is a mockery, Ivanhoe. A mockery of reason
and religion.

It's a feat that few people achieve.

God knows when I am mocking Him. Obviously, you don't
know when I am mocking you.

Ite Postus Est,
Nemesio

Nemesio: "Your every post is a mockery, Ivanhoe. A mockery of reason and religion."

..... every post ? Nemmy you are always exgarrerating .........

Originally posted by Nemesio
Your every post is a mockery, Ivanhoe. A mockery of reason
and religion.

It's a feat that few people achieve.

God knows when I am mocking Him. Obviously, you don't
know when I am mocking you.

Ite Postus Est,
Nemesio

Nemesio: "God knows when I am mocking Him."

..... 🙄 😕

Originally posted by Darfius
..why do you feel the need to make sure no one else becomes a Christian? How does it harm you if they do? Why are you on a campaign to discredit everything a Christian presents?

The most obvious answer to me is that you are afraid we are right and you need assurance.[/b]

Most of us non-Xians are that way because we are concerned that when people do things in "The name of God" people are slaughtered, raped and generally handled in not very nice ways. I am happy to discredit any religion that claims that it is the "Only Way to God" or the "Only Path for Humanity to Save Itself" Such hubris is what destroys us...atheists, christians, moslems, jews, buddhists, nihlists, mormons, latter day saints etc.

A little more doubt and uncertainty from prosleytizers like yourself would make your views far more worth listening to.

Henry

Originally posted by Darfius
No1, particularly you, why do you feel the need to make sure no one else becomes a Christian? How does it harm you if they do? Why are you on a campaign to discredit everything a Christian presents?

The most obvious answer to me is that you are afraid we are right and you need assurance.

Because Christians impose many of their beliefs on others through politics/law. You guys are too powerful and too controlling as a whole in the United States and I want to undermine this political bloc.

I also debate these things as a form of self examination.

I wouldn't exactly say I was on a campaign to "make sure no one else becomes a Christian" or to "discredit everything a Christian presents" but I am definitely trying to show Christians why their beliefs often are highly irrational and spring from bias and social conditioning, or at least uncritical acceptance of the statements of confident and charismatic people.

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
Because Christians impose many of their beliefs on others through politics/law. You guys are too powerful and too controlling as a whole in the United States and I want to undermine this political bloc.

I also debate these things ...[text shortened]... acceptance of the statements of confident and charismatic people.

ATY: "Because Christians impose many of their beliefs on others through politics/law.

What are those beliefs which are being imposed on others through politics and law ?

ATH: "You guys are too powerful and too controlling as a whole in the United States and I want to undermine this political bloc."

At least you are honest about your intentions. That's very refreshing I must say. This whole religion against secularism debate is a political battle in which even the Separation of Church and State is used to gain political ground, to stifle the other side. For instance this fuss about evolution/creation is in the first place an American discussion and secondly it is a political fight disguised as a religious/scientific debate. The social (class ?), political and cultural contradictions in the United States's society have been reduced to a fight between "Reason" and "Superstition" as the left wants us to believe. It is a false image of the situation and many US citizens from the left ánd the right are aware of that. It is a matter of chosing political strategies. The right doesn't mind this reductionist description of political reality. It thrives by it.

What can the left do to improve social conditions and ease the class (racial?) tensions and at the same time win the elections ?

In my opinion the Dems should move away from the feminist and liberal ideology in the so called "Culture of Death" debate, the abortion and euthanasia discussion. If the left would combine a strong policy of economic and social improvements for the lower ánd the middle classes, for instance moderate tax cuts for everybody, a strong homeland security policy and a strong foreign security policy in combination with a movement away from the so called Culture of Death ideology they would be able to beat the Republicans by miles.

They have to do what Tony Blair did in the UK: Steal your opponents policies !

Originally posted by ivanhoe
ATY: "Because Christians impose many of their beliefs on others through politics/law.

What are those beliefs which are being imposed on others through politics and law ?

ATH: "You guys are too powerful and too controlling as a whole in the United States and I want to undermine this political bloc."

At least you are honest about your intentions. ...[text shortened]... s by miles.

They have to do what Tony Blair did in the UK: Steal your opponents policies !

What are those beliefs which are being imposed on others through politics and law ?

Anti-abortion laws, laws against gay marriage, references to God on our money, the reference to God in the Pledge of Allegience, "Christ's Mass" being a national holiday under that name (Christmas), polygamy being illegal, anti-sex education laws, the U.S.'s tremendous support of Israel being supported in part by Christian beliefs, the teaching of evolution in schools being undermined, anti-sodomy laws, the fact that only Protestants get elected President (with the exception of one Catholic I believe), opposition against contraception as a general rule...these are the influences that Christianity has on United States politics and law.

I'd like to see these sorts of issues being decided not based on Christianity but on non religious reason. I don't mean to suggest I feel any particular way about any of these issues, and I don't mean to say they are all current laws, but rather that these are the issues that Christians put pressure on the U.S. about because of their religion.

Originally posted by Darfius
No1, particularly you, why do you feel the need to make sure no one else becomes a Christian? How does it harm you if they do? Why are you on a campaign to discredit everything a Christian presents?

The most obvious answer to me is that you are afraid we are right and you need assurance.

Darfius, have you considered the possibility that #1 is as powerless to keep anyone from becoming a Christian as you are to make anyone a Christian?

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
[b]What are those beliefs which are being imposed on others through politics and law ?

Anti-abortion laws, laws against gay marriage, references to God on our money, the reference to God in the Pledge of Allegience, "Christ's Mass" being a national holiday under that name (Christmas), polygamy being illegal, anti-sex education laws, the U.S. ...[text shortened]... t these are the issues that Christians put pressure on the U.S. about because of their religion.[/b]

Fair enough, now I'll show you what is imposed on Christians:

Pro-abortion laws. Attempts to make gay marriage legal (why support the extermination of the human race??). Attempting to take God out of the pledge of allegiance (that's like a foreigner demanding that natives make things more conveniant for THEM). Christians' inability to even bring a Bible to school. Christians inability to discuss a large facet of their lives at school or work while atheists spout their beliefs 24/7. A Christian President having to battle for his RIGHT to say a prayer for his presidency (utterly ridiculous). Attempts to abolish the death penalty (please don't kill, or we will put you in a cozy, minimum security prison after 3 years of "good behavior", where you will enjoy television, have a part time job, and basically have a better life than most high school dropouts.) Daming our nation by supporting suicide bombers, terrorists, and evil men by trying to get them their own state so they can have a base from which to attempt to drive Israel into the sea (their evident and proud goal).

As you can see, it's a two-way street, and as the morals of our nation deteriorate faster, Christians are losing the battle.

Originally posted by kirksey957
Darfius, have you considered the possibility that #1 is as powerless to keep anyone from becoming a Christian as you are to make anyone a Christian?

The Holy Spirit does all the work, but it still doesn't help when he does what he does.

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
[b]What are those beliefs which are being imposed on others through politics and law ?

Anti-abortion laws, laws against gay marriage, references to God on our money, the reference to God in the Pledge of Allegience, "Christ' ...[text shortened]... ristians put pressure on the U.S. about because of their religion.[/b]

I can see your problem.

As far as the abortion law is concerned you cannot deny that a human beings's life is at stake. It is not unreasable for the state to defend every citizins life. Born or unborn, young or old, male or female, healthy or disabled.

As far as the gay marriage is concerned. It would be nice if gay couples would be able to get the same tax benefits etc as hetero couples. I don't think the state has any business in providing gay couples with children, be it adopted or otherwise.

God on the money ? Who cares ? As long as you can earn enough that should not be a question.

Pledge of Allegience: I can understand your wish of being able to choose here whether to use or not to use the Name of God.

Christmas: You don't want a free holiday ? Who cares what others celebrate ?

Polygamy: would be a national social disaster if you would allow it. Look at the black community for instance. I don't think the leaders of the black community want polygamy becoming legal. They are having enough trouble getting black men to accept their responsabilities for one woman let alone for more than one.

Sex education: Difficult question. The parents are able to do that. If parents want their children to behave more liberal in this field than what they are tought in school they can give the "good" example and the children will undoubtedly follow with all the miserable and sad consequenses.

Evolution ? You think children cannot live without the notion that their grandpa was an ape ?

Anti-sodomy laws ? Move to New York or San Francisco !

Catholic Presidents (Kennedy was one): The more the merrier !
I'm afraid that's democracy.

Contraception: It is a part of ones understanding of how the sexes should treat eachother.

If I understand you correctly, the underlying notion in your reasoning is: the more freedom is granted to people the happier they will become. I'm afraid that is a tragic misunderstanding.