1. Joined
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    23 Feb '14 05:18
    Do you think that the forbidden fruit was eve's peach?
  2. Standard memberRJHinds
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    23 Feb '14 05:33
    Originally posted by tim88
    Do you think that the forbidden fruit was eve's peach?
    NO.
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    23 Feb '14 20:523 edits
    The Forbidden Fruit.

    Tim88 means the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil which Adam was told not to eat. If he did eat of it he would die.

    I do not know what tim88 means by Eve's peach.

    But for a serious discussion on the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, I am up for that.

    And I do not think I understand everything about this. But I understand something about it.

    I would start by dispensing with what I would call are some myths or misunderstandings about this tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

    1. ) It was not the ONLY important tree in the garden. It was one of TWO important trees. One was opened to man and the other was forbidden.

    "And out of the ground Jehovah God caused to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight and good for food, as well as the tree of life in the middle of the garden and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil." (Genesis 2:9)

    The tree of life AND the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

    2.) The two trees - the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil seem to be opposites or the antithesis of each other. One is allowed to man. The other is forbidden by God to man.

    3.) It is not merely the tree of the knowledge of evil. It is not merely representative of "bad". It is the tree of the knowledge of both good and bad - "the knowledge of good and evil" .

    It is therefore representative of something much more subtle than say Pandora's Box. Both the knowledge of good AND evil are both represented on one tree.

    4.) Therefore the dichotomy presented before the first man was not a tree of good here and a tree of evil there. Rather the tree of life here and the tree of knowledge of good and evil there as its nemesis.

    5.) Now this is a more difficult point.

    Apparently, it mentions something that God had, the belonged to God, that was the domain of God and owned by God. For when man partook of it in disobedience to God's command God said that man had become like God in that regard -

    "And Jehovah God said, Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now let he put forth his hand and take also from the tree of life and live forever -" (Genesis 3:21,22)

    This is not an easy matter to understand.

    6.) There is no question about the fact that God forbade Adam to eat of that tree of the knowledge of good and evil -

    "And Jehovah God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden you may eat freely.

    But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, of it you shall not eat; for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die." (Gen. 2:16,17)


    " And He [God] said, Who told you that you are naked? Have you eaten of the tree of which I commanded you not to eat? " (Gen. 3:11)

    God is displeased.

    "And to Adam He said, Because you listened to the voice of your wife and have eaten of the tree concerning which I commanded you, saying, You shall not eat of it; Cursed is the ground because of you ... " (See Gen. 3:17a)

    I could go on. That is enough for now.

    Why is something with such a positive name result in a curse ?
    Why is something which God has has He has forbidden to man ?
    Why does the eating of the tree cause death in man ?

    Some of these questions maybe we can explore.
  4. Joined
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    23 Feb '14 21:25
    Originally posted by tim88
    Do you think that the forbidden fruit was eve's peach?
    YouTube

    Not sure if you meant this but funny anyway tim.
  5. SubscriberSuzianne
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    23 Feb '14 21:321 edit
    Originally posted by sonship
    The Forbidden Fruit.

    Tim88 means the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil which Adam was told not to eat. If he did eat of it he would die.

    I do not know what tim88 means by Eve's peach.
    I think I do, but I also do not think it a poignant topic for this forum.

    I think he's just trying to be funny/controversial.
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    23 Feb '14 21:34
    Originally posted by divegeester
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLBbPg89gik

    Not sure if you meant this but funny anyway tim.
    The Eve's peach cobbler reference on Yahoo did make me kind of hungry.
  7. Standard membersonship
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    27 Mar '14 23:30
    The transgression of eating from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil was essentially a rejection of God's authority.

    It was more than a bad thing to do. It was rejection of the authority of God. And from that error all other problems stemmed.

    What do you all think?
    It was something that God had. - "Behold the man has become like one of Us."

    Who else can define what is good and evil ?
    This prohibition was against rejecting the ultimate authority of the Creator God. The result of rejecting God's authority as the source of life can only be a dynamic withdrawal into ruination and darkness and death.
  8. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    27 Mar '14 23:55
    Why did god put the damn tree there in the first place when he knows what will happen???
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    29 Mar '14 08:471 edit
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    Why did god put the damn tree there in the first place when he knows what will happen???
    I believe that God placed the two trees there to have man choose between to wills - God's will represented by the tree of life and Satan's rebellion represented by the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

    This formed a triangular situation in the universe with God and one side, Satan His enemy at the other side, and man in the middle with his free will to choose.

    In a real sense the great power in the universe is our own free will.
    It is awesomely powerful that human beings are set by God to choose which way each we would go - with God's way or with "the other way."

    The king of "the other way" - so to speak, is the most evil being Satan. He was the most wise and most beautiful. Sometime in the ancient history of creation he morphed into the head being of "the other way" besides God's way of life. He became the antithesis of all that God is. He took the attributes bestowed upon him and withdrew from God the Most High.

    Satan, temporarily, has become the opposite of all that God is.
    God is the Source of life and blessing and eternal glory.

    Man was innocent and neutral between the way of God's divine life and the way of Satan's death and rebellion. God just initiated man's existence in that way.
  10. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    29 Mar '14 09:07
    Originally posted by sonship
    I believe that God placed the two trees there to have man [b]choose between to wills - God's will represented by the tree of life and Satan's rebellion represented by the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

    This formed a triangular situation in the universe with God and one side, Satan His enemy at the other side, and man in the m ...[text shortened]... life and the way of Satan's death and rebellion. God just initiated man's existence in that way.[/b]
    But god knew what man would do!
    So what was the point? (from god's perspective and man's)
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    29 Mar '14 09:36
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    Why did god put the damn tree there in the first place when he knows what will happen???
    Free will.
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    29 Mar '14 11:18
    Originally posted by divegeester
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLBbPg89gik

    Not sure if you meant this but funny anyway tim.
    Best YT-video evah!
  13. Standard membersonship
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    29 Mar '14 12:112 edits
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    But god knew what man would do!
    So what was the point? (from god's perspective and man's)
    I don't know if I can write more to your satisfaction on this question.
    Some people simply get stuck on this point.

    Though the foreknowledge of God and the free will of man can be a perplexing philosophical combination it has never caused me to doubt the Bible's words.

    I will now paste a portion of ministry from The Life Study of Genesis by one Witness Lee, which has helped me. It does not mean that I don't intend to discuss more.

    THE TWO TREES
    (1)

    In the foregoing messages, we have covered God's eternal purpose and some of the points regarding God's way of fulfilling His purpose. God's way of accomplishing His purpose was firstly to create man as a vessel to contain Himself as life and then to place him in a garden before the tree of life, indicating that God's intention was for man to partake of the fruit of this tree. However, along with the tree of life, Genesis 2:9, 17 mention the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Therefore, we need to consider very carefully the significance of these two trees.
    b. Allowing Man to Have Free Choice—2:16-17

    Although God wanted man to eat of the tree of life, He did not force him to do it. Neither did God put the tree of life into him. Instead, God gave man free will. He gave him freedom of choice. When mothers feed their infant children, they seem to force the children to take the food. Nevertheless, the baby still has free will, for often he refuses the food that has been put in his mouth. The mother wants her child to eat, but she must recognize that he has a free will.

    God created man with freedom of choice. Why did God do this? God is great. He is not small. Only a small man forces people to accept his opinion. If you compel others to take your way, it proves that you are a small person. If you are a great man, you will never force people to accept you. You will always give them a choice, saying, "If you love me, you may take me. If you do not care for me, you are free to forget about me." No man who is great or honorable will coerce people. Likewise, God is great. He is so attractive as the God of glory. God did not place man in front of Him exclusively, thus compelling man to choose Him. He placed man before two trees, confronting him with a choice.

    When I was a young Christian, I was bothered by this. I said, "Why did God put man into such a dangerous situation? If I had been God, I would have removed the tree of knowledge of good and evil. I would have left the tree of life, placed man in front of it, and built a high protective wall to keep him safe. Why didn't God do this? Why did God put the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden as a temptation? Every problem comes from this source. Why didn't God take it away? If He had removed this tree, it would have saved us a great deal of trouble." I was not the only one who had these questions. Many young people asked me the same thing. However, if God had not given man a choice, He would have forced him to take the tree of life. God is too great to do such a thing. God is honorable and attractive. In order to display His greatness and prove His attractiveness, He needs the second tree.

    According to the book of Job, Satan, the adversary of God, accused Job to God. He seemed to say, "Why does Job worship You? He worships You only because You bless him. If You take away all these blessings, Job will forsake You and renounce You to Your face" (Job 1:9-11). In other words, Satan told the Lord that He was bribing Job to worship Him and that if He did not bribe him, Job would forsake Him. Thus, Satan was slandering God as well as Job. God seemed to answer Satan, "Do as much as you can. I only command you to spare his life. I will prove to you that Job has not been bribed, but that he has been attracted by Me. Job worships Me out of his own free will."

    God is the same today. He never forces anyone to accept Him. When the Lord Jesus came, He did not coerce people into following Him. He presented Himself to people, but always respected their freedom of choice. The Lord seemed to say, "If you like Me, you may take Me. If you don't like Me, you may forget about Me." Some of us may feel that we have been compelled by the Lord's mercy to believe in Him. To a certain extent, I feel the same way. His mercy has conquered us, persuading us to receive Him. Nevertheless, I can testify strongly that if you force me to reject Him, I will still take Him. I will never give Him up. Why have there been so many martyrs throughout the centuries? The Lord God stayed away, allowing His people to make a choice, that the actual situation might be proved to His enemy. God seemed to say, "Do your best, Satan. My people still choose Me." Our brother Watchman Nee was imprisoned for twenty years, from 1952 until his death in 1972, where he was tested and tempted. He never changed his choice because his Lord was too lovely and too attractive. We have received the Lord Jesus, not because we have been forced or pressed, but because we have been called by His glory and attracted by His virtue (2 Pet. 1:3). We all can confess that regardless of what people might offer us, we would never renounce the Lord Jesus. Our Lord is too dear, too precious, and too attractive. We have made Him our unique choice.

    The same principle operated in the garden of Eden when God placed Adam before the two trees, which denoted two sources. God wanted man to choose Him as the tree of life.


    [my bolding]
  14. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    29 Mar '14 21:59
    Originally posted by yoctobyte
    Free will.
    My question: Why did god put the damn tree there in
    the first place when he knows what will happen???


    your answer: Free will

    Was god demonstrating to Man that he had free will?

    I don't see the relevance.
  15. Subscribersonhouse
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    29 Mar '14 22:11
    Originally posted by sonship
    The Forbidden Fruit.

    Tim88 means the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil which Adam was told not to eat. If he did eat of it he would die.

    I do not know what tim88 means by Eve's peach.

    But for a serious discussion on the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, I am up for that.

    And I do not think I understand everything abo ...[text shortened]... the eating of the tree cause death in man ?

    Some of these questions maybe we can explore.
    Since your alleged god is omniscient, why would it set out a trap that it knew would cause Eve to eat the fruit?

    It knew in advance what it was doing and so just used Eve as an excuse because humans in general were becoming a pain in the ass to this god.

    Don't blame Eve, it was a set up.
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