free will again :S

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Interesting that you call it 'crap'. Why so?

i saw this comic once that a kid made at school, it was called Holy Crap; and he was making fun of Jesus and i thought it was funny.

Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
evil is the opposite of good and i believe the reason they had no knowledge of good and evil is because they were doing good because they never knew of evil, so it was like they were doing good without even knowing it.

Now hold on a second. This is a direct contradiction of what you said earlier:

"you have to show somebody evil and good to give them free will, you can not just show them good; they would have no choice to be good because they would not know of evil, and that is not free will."

"they have to see evil so that after they see it, they can choose either good or evil."

You claimed that they had seen evil, and this is what allowed them to have free will. Now you're saying the opposite, they had no knowledge of good and evil. Which is it? And if they did not have knowledge of good and evil, could they have had free will? If they did not "know" evil, could they knowingly commit evil? Or should they not have been held accountable for their actions? I think I'm going to need some clarification of your position.

Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
God made hell so that we wouldnt be forced to go to heaven, he gave us a choice; that is what free will is. good/heaven or evil/hell

That's not much of a choice. That allows for the same amount of choice as someone saying, "do as I say or I'll shoot you between the eyes." It's a very constrained choice.

I think what EcstremeVenom is trying to say is that we have the choice whether to go to Hell or to Heaven. It is of our own free will. The part that needs clarification is concerning works vs. grace. The Bible clearly states that (in the dispensation that we are in) we no longer have to perform under the law, but instead have the choice to believe in Christ's finished work for us. "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Romans 10:13.

Originally posted by rwingett
That's not much of a choice. That allows for the same amount of choice as someone saying, "do as I say or I'll shoot you between the eyes." It's a very constrained choice.

It' more like this: You are told clearly, if you put your hand in the fire you will burn! The choice is yours.

Originally posted by SharpeMother
I think what EcstremeVenom is trying to say is that we have the choice whether to go to Hell or to Heaven. It is of our own free will. The part that needs clarification is concerning works vs. grace. The Bible clearly states that (in the dispensation that we are in) we no longer have to perform under the law, but instead have the choice to believe in Ch ...[text shortened]... rk for us. "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Romans 10:13.

Do the cannibal humans in the deep jungles of The Amazon and Papua New Guinea have a choice? They were unfortunate enough to have been born into a community of illiterate humans who therefore have no luck of learning about the good words of the bible. They are 'uncivilised' humans who, I was told, still worship fire as their god. Surely they don't deserve to go to heaven? And neither should they deserve to go to hell? Or is it possible that only civilised humans are subject to the laws of god? The rest are excused?

Originally posted by ckoh1965
Do the cannibal humans in the deep jungles of The Amazon and Papua New Guinea have a choice? They were unfortunate enough to have been born into a community of illiterate humans who therefore have no luck of learning about the good words of the bible. They are 'uncivilised' humans who, I was told, still worship fire as their god. Surely they don't deserve t ...[text shortened]... it possible that only civilised humans are subject to the laws of god? The rest are excused?

if you never knew of God then you still can go to heaven

Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
if you never knew of God then you still can go to heaven

What is that supposed to mean? Are you saying that we, who are people from the civilised group, able to read and write, are burdened with the obligation to find god in order to find our way to heaven? Otherwise if we are not born into the civilised world, we can go to heaven without finding god?

Originally posted by ckoh1965
What is that supposed to mean? Are you saying that we, who are people from the civilised group, able to read and write, are burdened with the obligation to find god in order to find our way to heaven? Otherwise if we are not born into the civilised world, we can go to heaven without finding god?

its not a burden.

Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
its not a burden.

It is a burden to me. Have I any choice? I don't want to go to church and pray and worship anyone in order to go to heaven. Can I do it like that? Or do I HAVE to please God first?

Originally posted by ckoh1965
It is a burden to me. Have I any choice? I don't want to go to church and pray and worship anyone in order to go to heaven. Can I do it like that? Or do I HAVE to please God first?

i dont go to church thats dumb