Free will

Originally posted by @vivify
I don't know. Why does the bible say God doesn't change his mind, when he clearly has many times in the OT? Simple answer: the bible is flawed.

Cite an example.

Originally posted by @fmf
You cited me in your OP. Why not quote the piece on love and choice that you were referring to?

Did you not say that you do not have the choice to love or not love someone? I think the issue here is the definition of love. Do you agree with Paul's definition in 1 Corinthians 13 that I cited?

Do you love Jesus? You say that you were a Christian, so did you not have the power to not love him, do you still love him, did you never love him, did you change your mind? What?

-Removed-

There is no such thing as absolute freedom. We can't choose our parents, where and when we were born or when we will die. But that doesn't mean we have no free will or the ability to seek God.

Acts 17:26

From one man He made every nation of men, to inhabit the whole earth; and He determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their lands. God intended that they would seek Him and perhaps reach out for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us.

Originally posted by @whodey
Correct, God chooses those whom he knows will choose him.

I realize how confusing it can get.

The bible doesn't say that. You're adding adding to the bible, a big no-no according biblical doctrine. It's also erroneous, since Paul makes it clear that human decisions plays no part in who God chooses to be saved.

the bible says that some people were created for wrath. Obviously, that means God explicitly created people to go hell; he had no intention of letting them choose salvation.

Originally posted by @whodey
Cite an example.

Numbers 23:19

19 God is not human, that he should lie,
not a human being, that he should change his mind.

1 Samuel 2:30

“Therefore the Lord, the God of Israel, declares: ‘I promised that members of your family would minister before me forever.’ But now the Lord declares: ‘Far be it from me!

“Perhaps they will listen and each one will turn back from his evil way, and I will change my mind concerning the calamity that I intend to bring on them because of their evil deeds.”—Jeremiah 26:3.

Originally posted by @vivify
The bible doesn't say that. You're adding adding to the bible, a big no-no according biblical doctrine. It's also erroneous, since Paul makes it clear that human decisions plays no part in who God chooses to be saved.

the bible says that some people were created for wrath. Obviously, that means God explicitly created people to go hell; he had no intention of letting them choose salvation.

Now you are putting these exact words into Paul's mouth, "human decisions plays no part in who God chooses to be saved." Quote his exact words where he says that or admit that you put those words in his mouth.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
Now you are putting these exact words into Paul's mouth, "human decisions plays no part in who God chooses to be saved." Quote his exact words where he says that or admit that you put those words in his mouth.

You made the accusation, you show that I'm wrong, then.

Originally posted by @vivify
You made the accusation, you show that I'm wrong, then.

If you cannot give me the verse where Paul spoke those exact words, then I will maintain that you are putting words in his mouth.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
If you cannot give me the verse where Paul spoke those exact words, then I will maintain that you are putting words in his mouth.

You're a child molester. If can't prove you're not, I will maintain that you molest children.

Originally posted by @vivify
You're a child molester. If can't prove you're not, I will maintain that you molest children.

You can claim that I am a child molester. If you can't prove it your words are hollow. Just as hollow as they are when you claim that Paul said something without being able to quote the verse.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
You can claim that I am a child molester. If you can't prove it your words are hollow.

Exactly. If you can't prove your claim that I put words in Paul's mouth, your words are hollow.

Originally posted by @vivify
Exactly. If you can't prove your claim that I put words in Paul's mouth, your words are hollow.

If you can't prove that the words you quoted belong to Paul, there is no need for me to prove anything since you are unable to back up the claim you made.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
If you can't prove that the words you quoted belong to Paul, there is no need for me to prove anything since you are unable to back up the claim you made.

Likewise. You can't prove I put words in Paul's mouth, and there's no need for me prove anything to you.

You've been owned by your own logic.

Originally posted by @vivify
Likewise. You can't prove I put words in Paul's mouth, and there's no need for me prove anything to you.

You've been owned by your own logic.

So if you can't prove that God doesn't exist we should just assume that he does? Nice. Prove that God doesn't exist.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
So if you can't prove that God doesn't exist we should just assume that he does? Nice. Prove that God doesn't exist.

I didn't make a claim that God doesn't exist. You made a claim that I misquoted Paul.

See the difference? You make a claim, you must prove it. Got it, child molester?