Originally posted by knightmeister The way I see it, there is no element of surprise at all. God saw everything long before it happened.
...this is where you misunderstand. God saw it AS it was happening. It's all NOW for him. Jesus can be placed on our timeline though and for him there can be surprises. However , the phrase "long before it happened" have no meaning in eternity. Do ...[text shortened]... does not make it predetermined , it just means he's good at stepping outside of time.
How do you deal with the time elements mentioned the Bible?
Heaven appears to have an order of worship. This can only take place if there is time element to heaven.
The Bible claims that Jesus was sacrificed before the foundations of the world.
The gospels, Paul's epistles, Peter's epistles, John's epistles, the Psalms, et. al. all refer to God predetermining events and even saints. I simply do not/cannot comprehend this "constant now" stance of yours. There is no Biblical grounding for it. I suspect you simply wanted to retain your free will so much that added this fantastic attribute to God to have Him be all-knowing and still allow you to do as you wish.
Originally posted by Big Mac How do you deal with the time elements mentioned the Bible?
Heaven appears to have an order of worship. This can only take place if there is time element to heaven.
The Bible claims that Jesus was sacrificed before the foundations of the world.
The gospels, Paul's epistles, Peter's epistles, John's epistles, the Psalms, et. al. all refer to God pred ...[text shortened]... antastic attribute to God to have Him be all-knowing and still allow you to do as you wish.
The Bible also says that to him a thousand years is like a day. There may be some order of events or time involved in heaven but it would not be "our" time. In these matters what "NOW" is like for God is virtually beyond imagination. I only used the phrase because he obviously must know all points in your life on your timeline simultanously . He looks at the dimension of time like you look at the dimension of this text box. You can see it all laid out in front of you in one go. As long as you understand that God is not looking along our timeline like you are then you are getting there. He can of course pre-determine certain events or pre-structure someone's life so that they become a saint but he would only do this if he knew that they had chosen him anyway.
"The Bible claims that Jesus was sacrificed before the foundations of the world."
I think this is refering to the idea that Jesus's sacrifice is an eternal event (or none time constricted) For example , Jesus's sacrifice benefitted those who lived before him as well as after him.
Originally posted by knightmeister The Bible also says that to him a thousand years is like a day. There may be some order of events or time involved in heaven but it would not be "our" time. In these matters what "NOW" is like for God is virtually beyond imagination. I only used the phrase because he obviously must know all points in your life on your timeline simultanously . He looks ...[text shortened]... example , Jesus's sacrifice benefitted those who lived before him as well as after him.
Just checking, are all these explanations of the bible... or merely your own interpretations?
Originally posted by ckoh1965 Just checking, are all these explanations of the bible... or merely your own interpretations?
I think they are all reasonable extrapolations of what the Bible says about God. You think God has to hang about for a day to find out what you are doing tomorrow?
Free Will?
23 Apr '07 15:30
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