From the Law to Grace

Originally posted by @fmf
You seem to want to separate 'morality' from the act of killing. Was it morally sound for the ancient Hebrews to kill gays?

If the laws of a society allow the death sentence for certain actions, would the members of that society be doing something morally unsound if they were to apply the law of their society?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
If the laws of a society allow the death sentence for certain actions, would the members of that society be doing something morally unsound if they were to apply the law of their society?

You should perhaps just answer my question.

As for me, I think capital punishment is morally unsound. Laws and moral codes are not one-in-the-same and they often diverge considerably. You already know this. I am asking about the morality of killing gays - in your view, as a religionist - and not about what the laws of the society happened to be at that time.

How about your answer to my question?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
If the laws of a society allow the death sentence for certain actions, would the members of that society be doing something morally unsound if they were to apply the law of their society?

The 'death sentences' visited upon Jews (and others) by the Nazi regime in Germany in the 1940s were for all intents and purposes in accordance with "the laws of the society" but this did not make the Holocaust morally sound.

Originally posted by @fmf
You should perhaps just answer my question.

As for me, I think capital punishment is morally unsound. Laws and moral codes are not one-in-the-same and they often diverge considerably. You already know this. I am asking about the morality of killing gays - in your view, as a religionist - and not about what the laws of the society happened to be at that time.

How about your answer to my question?

If your moral sensibilities make your belief that capital punishment is morally unsound right for you why wouldn't the moral sensibilities of the jews that allowed them to apply the death penalty not be right for them?

Originally posted by @fmf
The 'death sentences' visited upon Jews (and others) by the Nazi regime in Germany in the 1940s were for all intents and purposes in accordance with "the laws of the society" but this did not make the Holocaust morally sound.

If the laws of a society don't determine what is morally sound behavior for that society, then what does?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
If your moral sensibilities make your belief that capital punishment is morally unsound right for you why wouldn't the moral sensibilities of the jews that allowed them to apply the death penalty not be right for them?

You should perhaps just answer my question with a statement of your belief rather than a question to me.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
If the laws of a society don't determine what is morally sound behavior for that society, then what does?

We have discussed the relationship - and the gap - between laws and morality already. My stance has not changed.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
If your moral sensibilities make your belief that capital punishment is morally unsound right for you why wouldn't the moral sensibilities of the jews that allowed them to apply the death penalty not be right for them?

I am not asking you if the ancient Hebrews were "allowed" to apply the death penalty, I am asking you if you think it was deemed morally sound (and not legally sound) and whether you yourself think it was morally sound.

Originally posted by @fmf
You should perhaps just answer my question with a statement of your belief rather than a question to me.

So I should answer your questions while you continue to ignore mine?

Originally posted by @fmf
We have discussed the relationship - and the gap - between laws and morality already. My stance has not changed.

I did not ask you about the relationship -and the gap - between laws and morality. I asked you: "If the laws of a society don't determine what is morally sound behavior for that society, then what does?"

Originally posted by @dj2becker
I did not ask you about the relationship -and the gap - between laws and morality. I asked you: "If the laws of a society don't determine what is morally sound behavior for that society, then what does?"

We have discussed the difference - and overlap - between laws and morals before. You're pretending we haven't. My question still stands. Was it morally sound, in your view, for the Hebrews to kill gays?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
So I should answer your questions while you continue to ignore mine?

You haven't answered my question. And you already know what I believe about laws and morality because we discussed it before in detail.

Originally posted by @fmf
I am not asking you if the ancient Hebrews were "allowed" to apply the death penalty, I am asking you if you think it was deemed morally sound (and not legally sound) and whether you yourself think it was morally sound.

According to the old or the new covenant?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
According to the old or the new covenant?

Just state your belief. Asking me questions does not answer the question.

Killing homosexuals was once morally sound - yes or no?

Killing homosexuals is still morally sound - yes or no?

Originally posted by @fmf
We have discussed the difference - and overlap - between laws and morals before. You're pretending we haven't. My question still stands. Was it morally sound, in your view, for the Hebrews to kill gays?

"If the laws of a society don't determine what is morally sound behavior for that society, then what does?"

You have never answered this question and until you do don't expect me to answer yours.