28 Jul 10
Originally posted by menace71No it's not my definition at all but it's the Bible's definition at John 1: 12, 13 & Rom 8: 14, 16, 17.
So by your definition these 144,000 are chosen by God. If Chosen by God how or why any man alive this day or in any age would believe they were one of the 144,000 ? I think as soon as a person deemed themselves worthy they would disqualify themselves don't you think?
( So we have no idea whom thru this time period that God has specifically chosen to be ...[text shortened]... d playing harps 🙂 How about drinking beer and floating around on clouds? Kidding but I agree.
But notice especially where it says in Romans that God's spirit bears witness with our spirit or "referring to the ones of the first fruits." And John mentions "God's will, not mans".
So if God's will has chosen you to be of this group, you will completely with no doubt know it. But it is nothing I can even start to explain as I am not of that group and have never felt that unity with God that ones who say they are of that group feel.
I was fortunent to have known one of that group, which was a woman and not an elder, and she explained to me that as much as we feel we want life here on earth and would fight to keep it, she feels that draw to a heavenly hope, but a thousand times more to be in heaven and to be involved in the assignment of working with Jesus in the judgement work and the work of directing the establishmant of God's Kingdom and it's effects here on earth during those thousand years after armegeddon.
And for whoever is on this earth and no matter who they are in life knows they are a part of this 144,000 is not mine to question as that is betwen them and God. So if there are Witnesses who say they are of this group, I'm not one to say they aren't. So I see no flaw with that and I can't imagine why it could be called a flaw by anyone unless they know something only God decides on.
And with no other religions seeing this in the Bible and no one else coming forward and admitting that they are of the 144,000 or even understands what that position will mean with the work that they will be doing in heaven with Jesus, then up to this point, yes, it would seem that the majority of ones left on this earth are associated with the Witnesses. But the vast majority of JW's are not a part of this group but hopefully will be a part of the "Great Crowd that no one can number" that the bible speaks of that will survive armegeddon.
28 Jul 10
1 edit
Originally posted by galveston75You knew a woman who was was one of the 144,000.
.. I was fortunent to have known one of that group, which was a woman ....
Revelation 7 & 14 clearly says that the 144,000 are :
1. Jews of the descendents of Jacob and of the 12 tribes of Israel, 12,000 from each tribe, all listed by name.
2. ALL MEN ... Men becuase they are all virgins who have not had a woman in their life !!
How do you justify your belief that she is one of the 144,000?
Which tribe of Israel was she from?
How do you know she never had sex with a woman?
28 Jul 10
Originally posted by Rajk999You just don't get it do you? I feel very sorry you my friend.
You knew a woman who was was one of the 144,000.
Revelation 7 & 14 clearly says that the 144,000 are :
1. Jews of the descendents of Jacob and of the 12 tribes of Israel, 12,000 from each tribe, all listed by name.
2. ALL MEN ... Men becuase they are all virgins who have not had a woman in their life !!
How do you justify your belief that she is one ...[text shortened]... e 144,000?
Which tribe of Israel was she from?
How do you know she never had sex with a woman?
28 Jul 10
Originally posted by galveston75Yes I am looking. I asked a simple question. Can you answer it? Or are you the kind of teacher that cant defend/explain/justify/prove what you teach?
I'll give all I have to teach "IF" someone is looking for the Good News of the Kingdom that Jesus taught us to teach. Are you looking?
29 Jul 10
1 edit
Originally posted by Rajk999Well my first responce is that I would show and explain to you the very same information and scriptures that Robbie did over and over to you. I have nothing new so should I do the same as Robbie?
Yes I am looking. I asked a simple question. Can you answer it? Or are you the kind of teacher that cant defend/explain/justify/prove what you teach?
And my second responce is a question and that is are we to take everything in the Bible as literal?
29 Jul 10
Originally posted by galveston75The explanation given so far is twisted to make JWs think that they are part of the 144,000.
Well my first responce is that I would show and explain to you the very same information and scriptures that Robbie did over and over to you. I have nothing new so should I do the same as Robbie?
And my second responce is a question and that is are we to take everything in the Bible as literal?
- that there are spiritual Jews and natural Jews (descendents of Jacob)
- that Christ said that the kingdom will be taken from them and given to a nation bearing fruit.
- and since the only religion bearing fruit is the JWs, then they must be the spiritual Jews and must make up the 144,000.
Is that the explanation?
If the 12 tribes of Israel are listed by name then yes, that has to be taken literally.
29 Jul 10
Originally posted by Rajk999So in your wisdom of spirituality, why can't the Witnesses be a part of this group? Does not God decide who they will be or do you have some further insight on this that we don't? Please explain.
The explanation given so far is twisted to make JWs think that they are part of the 144,000.
- that there are spiritual Jews and natural Jews (descendents of Jacob)
- that Christ said that the kingdom will be taken from them and given to a nation bearing fruit.
- and since the only religion bearing fruit is the JWs, then they must be the spiritual Jews ...[text shortened]... tion?
If the 12 tribes of Israel are listed by name then yes, that has to be taken literally.
29 Jul 10
Originally posted by galveston75The Bible clearly states that the 144,000 is made up of 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel as follows :
So in your wisdom of spirituality, why can't the Witnesses be a part of this group? Does not God decide who they will be or do you have some further insight on this that we don't? Please explain.
12,000 from Judah
12,000 from Reuben
12,000 from Gad
12,000 from Asher
12,000 from Nepthalim
12,000 from Manaseh
12,000 from Simeon
12,000 from Levi
12,000 from Issachar
12,000 from Zebulon
12,000 from Joseph
12,000 from Benjamin
Are there any JWs in these groups ? NO? Then they cannot be part of the 144,000.
God apparently has already decided who they will be. It states so very clearly. Read it over ... 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel = 144,000. That means there is no room in that group for JWs or your woman friend who claims she is in the group.
29 Jul 10
Originally posted by Rajk999Ok....Where did the tribe of Joseph come from as there was no real tribe of Joseph? Why aren't the real tribes of Dan and Ephraim included if this is a real application that you say? If this is real then the real tribes are not all there.
The Bible clearly states that the 144,000 is made up of 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel as follows :
12,000 from Judah
12,000 from Reuben
12,000 from Gad
12,000 from Asher
12,000 from Nepthalim
12,000 from Manaseh
12,000 from Simeon
12,000 from Levi
12,000 from Issachar
12,000 from Zebulon
12,000 from Joseph
12,000 from Benjamin
Ar ...[text shortened]... eans there is no room in that group for JWs or your woman friend who claims she is in the group.
29 Jul 10
Originally posted by galveston75Whether or not the tribes as you know them are all there is irrelevant, and the fact that you have an issue with Joseph does not void the abundantly clear statement about the rest of the tribes from which 12,000 are each chosen.
Ok....Where did the tribe of Joseph come from as there was no real tribe of Joseph? Why aren't the real tribes of Dan and Ephraim included if this is a real application that you say? If this is real then the real tribes are not all there.
Do you really believe that your lack of understanding about Joseph and Dan and Ephraim, gives you licence to make the claim that they are not natural Jews? and by process of elimination they are JWs instead? Your logic is tantamount to that of a greedy man who sees a bag with $50,000 in it and becuase he looks around and sees nobody, makes the claim that the money must belong to him.
29 Jul 10
Originally posted by Rajk999Lol...You really, really don't get it. I can see where this is going as usual. You say you want to learn, which is a joke, and when you are shown something that is "revelant" to the issue and when you don't understand it then you get back on the attack instead of really thinking about the subject and seeing something from out side your mental box. I'm waisting my time by responding as usual. No more....
Whether or not the tribes as you know them are all there is irrelevant, and the fact that you have an issue with Joseph does not void the abundantly clear statement about the rest of the tribes from which 12,000 are each chosen.
Do you really believe that your lack of understanding about Joseph and Dan and Ephraim, gives you licence to make the claim that ...[text shortened]... and becuase he looks around and sees nobody, makes the claim that the money must belong to him.
29 Jul 10
Originally posted by galveston75It seems your comment "wasting your time by responding", means that since I dont not agree with your interpretation then you should not bother to respond. I have some news for you...
Lol...You really, really don't get it. I can see where this is going as usual. You say you want to learn, which is a joke, and when you are shown something that is "revelant" to the issue and when you don't understand it then you get back on the attack instead of really thinking about the subject and seeing something from out side your mental box. I'm waisting my time by responding as usual. No more....
There is NOBODY who agrees with your interpretation. Its not just me.
29 Jul 10
Originally posted by Rajk999Over 7 million who used to be of other religions or ones like yourself who were floating around on their own, that agree.... And there are other JW's at RHP who do not waist there time as I do discussing this with you. So no...I'm not alone.
It seems your comment "wasting your time by responding", means that since I dont not agree with your interpretation then you should not bother to respond. I have some news for you...
There is NOBODY who agrees with your interpretation. Its not just me.