Garden of Eden Found?

Originally posted by josephw
I'd say every farmer does it his own way.


But you're right again. I don't have or know a single thing that qualifies me to speak directly to the subject of biology.

But that's not what I'm doing in spite of what you think. I'm just throwing my two cents into the discussion.

Let the chips fall were they may. Evolution is bogus. There's only superficial evidence to support a wacky theory.

Hey, I made this thread, and I think you Young Earth people are nuts. You do exactly what you claim scientists do. It's projection. You take some true facts and make a model of reality from them which is not correct and then you refuse to critically examine that model of reality. You are appealing to peoples' stupidity. That only works on people who think they are stupid.

You guys generally work off of the historical record and the beginnings of civilization, which is in the range of 10,000 years ago. Yes, something happened at that time, but it wasn't like you YEC people make it out to be, and anyone who is intellectually honest can see that.

I struggle with YEC vs Old earth. A question however that there is not satisfactory answer for is why if man has been around for longer than 10,000 years why the sudden explosion in written language in only the last 6000 years? Also Calendars which the oldest only date back like 5 or 6000 years. Did man just suddenly become interested in keeping track of time in only the last 5 to 6000 years? Makes no sense.
If man was around as homo-sapiens for 100,000 years then there should be these things going further back.


Manny

Originally posted by menace71
I struggle with YEC vs Old earth. A question however that there is not satisfactory answer for is why if man has been around for longer than 10,000 years why the sudden explosion in written language in only the last 6000 years? Also Calendars which the oldest only date back like 5 or 6000 years. Did man just suddenly become interested in keeping track of ti ...[text shortened]... homo-sapiens for 100,000 years then there should be these things going further back.


Manny

If man was around as homo-sapiens for 100,000 years then there should be these things going further back.

Why should there be?

Originally posted by Proper Knob
[b]If man was around as homo-sapiens for 100,000 years then there should be these things going further back.

Why should there be?[/b]

Well it would just seem like these things would go further back. Did man just suddenly find the need to write and use calendars in the last 6000 years? So I'm expected to believe that only in the last 6000 out of 100,000 years man suddenly found the need?
why shouldn't there be?


Manny

Originally posted by menace71
Well it would just seem like these things would go further back. Did man just suddenly find the need to write and use calendars in the last 6000 years? So I'm expected to believe that only in the last 6000 out of 100,000 years man suddenly found the need?
why shouldn't there be?


Manny

Man has been shown to have had mobile phones for the last 30 years or so...why didn't they need to have mobile phones 6000 years ago??? 😕

Same answer to this question applies to your question

Originally posted by menace71
I struggle with YEC vs Old earth. A question however that there is not satisfactory answer for is why if man has been around for longer than 10,000 years why the sudden explosion in written language in only the last 6000 years? Also Calendars which the oldest only date back like 5 or 6000 years. Did man just suddenly become interested in keeping track of ti ...[text shortened]... homo-sapiens for 100,000 years then there should be these things going further back.


Manny

About that time, humans had finished exploring the world, but continued to reproduce exponentially as organisms do. This led to greater population densities which could only be supported through technological innovation.

About this time, the Sahara began to dry up, forcing the people nearby to move, further increasing population densities. Possibly early technology led to anthropormorphic climate change - that is, overgrazing may have created the Sahara somehow, I read that somewhere I think.

In any case, this is why I think so much technology began at that time. Our way of life changed. We became settled people. There isn't enough room for hunter gatherers any more unless we settled folks actively restrain ourselves from conquering them.

EDIT - Sahara started drying up AND apparently Eden was flooded.

Originally posted by Agerg
Man has been shown to have had mobile phones for the last 30 years or so...why didn't they need to have mobile phones 6000 years ago??? 😕

Same answer to this question applies to your question

Agreed but if man has been around for 100,000 years would not the probability that man would have made even greater technological advances than we already have?

I will agree the last 100 years we have made great advances no doubt.




Manny

Originally posted by Agerg
Man has been shown to have had mobile phones for the last 30 years or so...why didn't they need to have mobile phones 6000 years ago??? 😕

Same answer to this question applies to your question

Not really. Human beings have existed for about 200k years, but in the last 6k or so have had an immense technological leap relative to our previous existence. Something happened. I believe it was increased population densities.

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
Not really. Human beings have existed for about 200k years, but in the last 6k or so have had an immense technological leap relative to our previous existence. Something happened. I believe it was increased population densities.

Forgive me for my ignorance but I don't understand how increased population densities factor in to technological advances? I guess the sharing of knowledge maybe? Usually a need is what drives man right? Also it does not answer why did we suddenly have the need to keep track of time in only the last 6000 years. The last 94,000 we had no need?





Manny

Originally posted by menace71

Well, you can only feed so many people per acre as hunter-gatherers.

Originally posted by menace71
I struggle with YEC vs Old earth. A question however that there is not satisfactory answer for is why if man has been around for longer than 10,000 years why the sudden explosion in written language in only the last 6000 years? Also Calendars which the oldest only date back like 5 or 6000 years. Did man just suddenly become interested in keeping track of ti ...[text shortened]... homo-sapiens for 100,000 years then there should be these things going further back.


Manny

“....if man has been around for longer than 10,000 years why the sudden explosion in written language in only the last 6000 years? ...”

I think it is simply because writing and the concept of writing probably wasn't invented before then.
If you think about it, without the benefit of hindsight of knowing what 'writing' is, if you were a caveman living two million years ago, what are the chances of you independently thinking up the concept of 'writing'? I think it would be far from being an obvious concept to think up. And, even if you did think it up, what would have been the chances of it catching on when, surely, it would have been far from obvious how it would have been useful in the mind of a caveman?

“...Also Calendars which the oldest only date back like 5 or 6000 years. Did man just suddenly become interested in keeping track of time in only the last 5 to 6000 years? ...”

I think they nearly always had an interest in keeping track of time; just not quite with the same kind of precision as we do today; think of Stonehenge etc.
The problem is it took a long time before the concept of the modern calendar was evolved and invented.

Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
“....if man has been around for longer than 10,000 years why the sudden explosion in written language in only the last 6000 years? ...”

I think it is simply because writing and the concept of writing probably wasn't invented before then.
If you think about it, without the benefit of hindsight of knowing what 'writing' is, if you were a caveman l ...[text shortened]... is it took a long time before the concept of the modern calendar was evolved and invented.

It just does not make sense to me. So for the last 94,000 years man just lived in caves ignorant and stupid? Then all of a sudden some cave man said hummm I think I will start a calendar? So only in the last 6K years man decided to start writing and keeping track of time. I would think that whole empires and kingdoms would have arose and think of the population from 100K or 200k years of procreation? Something just does not add up.



Manny

Originally posted by menace71
Agreed but if man has been around for 100,000 years would not the probability that man would have made even greater technological advances than we already have?

I will agree the last 100 years we have made great advances no doubt.




Manny

Unforutnately we are born with amnesia. Primarily about our identity. If we knew our identity, then we could answer any question (that could be logically answered).

The clue here lies in the habituation of our species. Namely the habituation of looking at life linearly. (Contrary to popular belief, there is actually more than one way to look at reality)
A good analogy for this is our eyesight. In our eyes we have cones and rods.
One for direct vision, the other for peripheral vision. Now most people have forgetten to check their peripheral vision from time to time. Its like checking your rear view mirrors when driving. Good drivers check now and then.
The more you use your peripheral vision , the better you become at practicing that skill. This is a significant skill because it engages the brain doing two things at once, a skill that I believe is necessary for spiritual evolution.
Another example is breathing. The "ancients" used to breath not only air through their noses but also prana through the top of their heads. (Again, thier brains were focussing on two things at the one time).
Concious Breathing.

Originally posted by menace71
It just does not make sense to me. So for the last 94,000 years man just lived in caves ignorant and stupid? Then all of a sudden some cave man said hummm I think I will start a calendar? So only in the last 6K years man decided to start writing and keeping track of time. I would think that whole empires and kingdoms would have arose and think of the population from 100K or 200k years of procreation? Something just does not add up.



Manny

You're right. Something does not add up. Its not that man hasn't been around for 100 000+ years, its that so many books were burned, so many influencial people were killed, and the rulers of our planet perpetuated a lie (mixed with truth) , to keep the people in check.
These people having been ruling our planet for a long time (5000+) years.
Couple that with contact they have made with time travelling (evil)aliens, and then you start to get a picture of why it is so hard to get a clear picture of pre-history.

Originally posted by menace71
It just does not make sense to me. So for the last 94,000 years man just lived in caves ignorant and stupid? Then all of a sudden some cave man said hummm I think I will start a calendar? So only in the last 6K years man decided to start writing and keeping track of time. I would think that whole empires and kingdoms would have arose and think of the population from 100K or 200k years of procreation? Something just does not add up.



Manny

Let me try and explain.

Until around 10,000yrs ago we were hunter gatherers, meaning we followed wherever our food went. If the game went north, we went north, if the game went south, we went south. We had no settled base for very long. The men were involved in the catching of food, whilst the women stayed at camp and looked after the day to day running of the camp (or they did in my slightly sexist view here). I'm sure you get the picture.

Around 10,000yrs ago something happened. We discovered grain and farming. It's called either the Neolithic revolution or the Agricultural revolution. This development in farming changed us from a nomadic people to a sedentary people. We started to live in fixed commmunities. Two crucial aspects to consider that living in fixed communitites did was -

1. The development of farming technology meant that for the first time not everyone had to be involved in the production of food. People now had the time to specialise in areas other than food production.

2. Fixed communities also meant that trade routes could develop. If my clans neigbours in the next valley but one had a resource that i didn't have, maybe they would trade them for some pretty shells i found on the beach, or something they didn't have but i did. Fixed trade meant that we had to have some sort of record of what was being traded.

Writing didn't just suddenly explode into our world as you claimed. There is a clear evolution in methods of communication going back 30,000yrs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_communication

Phonetic writing, which is what you're talking about, didn't just happen out of nowhere. There is an evolutionary history in communication that pre-dates it. Our transition from a nomadic people to a sedentary people was no doubt the catalyst.