Gay marraige? What would God say?

Originally posted by ivanhoe
Kirk: " ...... occasionally when the Terri Schiavo case was going on I would ask people who were against her being "starved " by her husband if they had the same level of anger at God for allowing his son to die. Those were short conversations."

I can imaging why these were short conversations. What you said was firstly outrageous and above all lackin ...[text shortened]... leading people completely astray. You don't believe in God but you ask God to believe in you.

Ivanhoe, I must leave now or I would comment further. I am teaching Sunday school this morining and will try my best to impart what meager wisdom I have as I am a broken vessel.

Originally posted by kirksey957
#1, occasionally when the Terri Schiavo case was going on I would ask people who were against her being "starved " by her husband if they had the same level of anger at God for allowing his son to die. Those were short conversations.

Some differences between the two cases:

1. Christ was a full and willing participant in his crucifixion and subsequent descent into Hell. Nothing was done to him against his will. He could've pulled out any time he wanted.

2. Christ, being a Person of the Trinity, is the same being as God. If God allowed him to die, then it follows that Christ allowed himself to die. (Just another way of expressing (1)).

3. If anyone should bear the brunt of anger at Christ's death, it should be humanity - it was our disobedience that necessitated the death of Christ for our salvation. After all, if a child disobeys its mother and runs across the road, and the mother is subsequently killed when she pushes the child away from the path of a speeding truck, you do not direct your anger at the mother.

EDIT: On a more personal note, what kind of response were you expecting from the people you asked this to? And what position were you hoping to guide them to through this dialectic?

Originally posted by sjeg
Suffocation?? Care to elaborate?

I knew of back breaking pain, from nervous damage, loss of blood, dehydration, exposure, starvation... but suffocation?

"...it appears likely that the mechanism of death in crucifixion was suffocation. The chain of events which ultimately led to suffocation are as follows: With the weight of the body being supported by the sedulum, the arms were pulled upward. This caused the intercostal and pectoral muscles to be stretched. Furthermore, movement of these muscles was opposed by the weight of the body. With the muscles of respiration thus stretched, the respiratory bellows became relatively fixed. As dyspnea developed and pain in the wrists and arms increased, the victim was forced to raise the body off the sedulum, thereby transferring the weight of the body to the feet. Respirations became easier, but with the weight of the body being exerted on the feet, pain in the feet and legs mounted. When the pain became unbearable, the victim again slumped down on the sedulum with the weight of the body pulling on the wrists and again stretching the intercostal muscles. Thus, the victim alternated between lifting his body off the sedulum in order to breathe and slumping down on the sedulum to relieve pain in the feet. Eventually , he became exhausted or lapsed into unconsciousness so that he could no longer lift his body off the sedulum. In this position, with the respiratory muscles essentially paralyzed, the victim suffocated and died. (DePasquale and Burch)

Sorry for the copy paste.