Gehenna and the defeated Christian

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"How can the Christian avoid such discipline? Confess sins now, love God with all your heart, soul and mind, your neighbor as yourself, serve the Lord Jesus Christ now. Basically, walk the talk."

... by continuing to grow from spiritual infancy to maturity.

That too...

Originally posted by checkbaiter
That too...

... otherwise, living the life described depends on human empowerment. Correct?

Can a Christian, born again and redeemed believer in Jesus, be disciplined by Christ after His second coming ?

Yes

I agree and this thread is based on that concept. Now the scope of such discipline, I believe, is very wide. This thread deals with the extreme end.

I mean there will not only be the loss of reward for some but the administering of severe punishment.

How severe can such discipline be ?

In this life or next? In the next life, other than receiving 0 rewards, I do not know.

This thread I intended to speak of after the second coming of Christ.

You do not hear this talked about in mainstream Christianity very much.
But consider that the worldly judge has a great array of remedies within the law which she or he can invoke in order to correct a offending citizen.

Jesus Christ is the Judge Righteous Judge and the Judge of all the earth. Why would we think His hands would be tied in administering needed discipline to His own people? There is a large scope of things He might do for our perfecting.

This actions would not be in eternity. These actions would be during age of the millennial kingdom of a thousand years which preceeds the new heaven and new earth. Notice the mention of a thousand years six times in Revelation 20:2,3,4,5,6,7.

Some perfecting upon His own children God still has time to perform before the age of eternity begins. And during the thousand years not only some will lose the reward of reigning in the kingdom. Some believers will be disciplined more severely as we will see in this thread.

How can the Christian avoid such discipline ?

Confess sins now, love God with all your heart, soul and mind, your neighbor as yourself, serve the Lord Jesus Christ now. Basically, walk the talk.

This is all very true. And there is the matter of accepting what discipline the Lord arranges for us in this church age. For in this age of grace He also arranges our circumstances for our perfecting.

But after His coming and in the kingdom such discipline will have a different flavor. That is the age of the manifestation of the kingdom of the heavens. That is before the eternal age begins and lasts for one thousand years.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
... otherwise, living the life described depends on human empowerment. Correct?

To do those things takes more than human empowerment, wouldn't you say? I could have added speaking in tongues much, give of your increase, etc, etc., you just covered all the bases with growing to maturity, which is even better., short, concise...🙂

Boy o boy you love to talk. Thats your favourite pastime.

And you must love to be a contrarian as your favorite pastime.

All of that talk and not a single illustration of how one must be like a child. Its it your opinion that saying that Im like a child is the way?

If you have experience of being spiritually like a child, why don't you contribute some of your own testimony to the discussion ?

It seems you enjoy to be critical of my attempt to be atypically concise. People often complain about the length of my posts. And you jump in and say "boy of boy you didn't say anything about this or that."

I left many things unsaid or under elaborated upon.

After I turned to the Lord Jesus the first experience I remember in which I realized I had to humble myself was when the Lord showed me that spiritually everything I had was from Him.

He spoke to me (not audibly) but very clearly. Everything I received from Him and I was not the source of any of these blessings.

I longed for the pure milk of the word of God too, as a new born babe. It was a matter of taking Christ in even as food. You have to open up your whole being and call on His name - "O Lord Jesus. O Lord Jesus."

http://www.callingonthelord.org/

We often do not know HOW we should pray. We often do not know HOW to express what is going on with us. The Lord knows. And as the child calls "Moma" or "Daddy" so too we can call on the name of the Lord. The Lord is rich to all who call upon Him.

We can call "Abba Father" as a child to a Daddy. Calling on the name of the Lord and calling "Abba Father" is a good way for us to humble ourselves as little children.

We can never graduate from just opening up our whole heart to call upon the Lord.

What about doing the will of God and obedience to his will the way a child would be obedient to his father?

When a believer first comes to the Lord Jesus the early experiences will be of the Holy Spirit saying a lot of "No"s. Just as a child very early learns the word "No."

So in the beginning we receive many words from the Lord -

"No. Don't do that."
"No. Don't say that."

"No. Don't act like that anymore."
"No. You use to do that. Now no longer do that."

This is of course not all that one could write. But as I go through more of Matthew 18 I think more will come out. For now I point out that the young believer will receive a lot of promptings of the Holy Spirit to no longer do, think, or say as he acted before.

And He is very patient and gentle in reminding us. It is definitely a long distance race and not a sprint.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
... otherwise, living the life described depends on human empowerment. Correct?

GB I have asked this before of others like yourself but I never got an acceptable reply .. So here's hoping that you are you are a cut above the rest ...

Where in the teachings of Jesus can you see a differentiation in good works, charity and love being the result of human empowerment vs some other cause?

Before you reply please read Romans 2. There you will find details of those who know of no law but can still be justified by their good works which result from love in their hearts.

Christ is interested in doers not hearers and talkers and analyzers and those who those who waste time with empty discussions of cause and effect.

God is not mocked. What a man sows that shall he reap. Modern Christianity has failed in its mission to preache the gospel of Christ.

My subject from which I hope not to be highjacked is the sobering one of "Gehenna and the defeated Christian"

Jesus now expands the matter of stumbling others in Matthew 18:6,7 to the danger of stumbling oneself.

Verse 8 - "If your hand or your foot stumbles you, cut it off and cast it from you."

The "you" in this passage refers to the disciples who asked the question in verse 1 - " ... the disciples came to Jesus saying, Who then is greatest in the kingdom of the heavens?"

The Christian's foot may want to walk toward somewhere where sinning is popular. The disciple's hand may want to reach out toward some action that is sinful. That is my Christian life is stumbled by the tendency of my own physical member. This has to be dealt with seriously by the Christian.

After Christ's warning not to stumble fellow believers He warns us not to stumble ourselves. The Lord's words in verse 8 are directed at the same people.

Listen - "If your hand or your foot stumbles you cut it all and cast t from you; it is better for you to enter into life maimed or lame than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire." (v.8)

"And if your eye stumbles you, pluck it out and cast it from you; it is better for you to enter into life with one eue than to have two eyes and be cast into the Gehenna of fire."


Taking verses 6,8,9 together we now have these warnings to Christians:

1.) Rather than stumble the humble brother or sister Christian it would be more profitable to have a millstone tied to your neck and be drowned in the sea.

2.) Rather than go into the eternal fire with both feet and both hands that sin and stumble you, it would be more profitable to go into the kingdom minus a foot or minus a hand.

3.) Rather than go into the Gehenna of fire with a sinning eye which stumbles you, it would be more profitable to enter the kingdom minus an eye.

Jesus is talking to His disciples. Jesus is talking to those who believe in Him. Jesus is talking to those who seek to be greatest in the kingdom of the heavens.

Let this sink in a bit and then we will go on.
As you can see the possibility if punishment to a Christian can be very severe. Though the fire is eternal it does not say that the Christian will be there eternally. And I will also prove that the punishment Jesus describes here has to be temporary and dispensational.

Originally posted by sonship

Boy o boy you love to talk. Thats your favourite pastime.

And you must love to be a contrarian as your favorite pastime.

All of that talk and not a single illustration of how one must be like a child. Its it your opinion that saying that Im like a child is the way?

If you have experience of being spirituall ...[text shortened]... minding us. It is definitely a long distance race and not a sprint.

We are on two different paths Jaywill hence the constant disagreement.I take the teachings and doctrine of Christ [aka the Gospel of Christ], as the road to eternal life. You take the re-interpreted teachings of Christ and Paul which focusses on the easy way [but wrong way] to eternal life. Your wrong way claims that eternal life is granted to anyone to professes Christ with their mouth and they are therafter eternally saved and no evil or sin committed after could ever lead to their damnation.

Christ condemned in the strongest language mouth worshipers whose heart is far from Him. Doers and not hearers or talkers are just in the sight of God.

As for being like a child .. its is the humility and inability to lie, cheat, or engage in all the evils of worldliness that makes childlikeness to Christ such a desirable quality. Its these things which lead to the love and charity towards others which give eternal life.

Please try to focus your comments on the subject matter of the OP.
Gehenna and the defeated Christian.

Originally posted by sonship
Please try to focus your comments on the subject matter of the OP.
[b]Gehenna and the defeated Christian.[/b]

That reminds me of the movie Titanic. I think one of the musicians was concerned about the sinking ship and another told him to focus on the music he was playing.

Your ship 'HMS OSAS' is full of holes and is sinking Jaywill.

Originally posted by Rajk999
That reminds me of the movie Titanic. I think one of the musicians was concerned about the sinking ship and another told him to focus on the music he was playing.

Your ship 'HMS OSAS' is full of holes and is sinking Jaywill.

Please try to focus your comments on the subject matter of the OP.
Gehenna and the defeated Christian.

Originally posted by sonship
Please try to focus your comments on the subject matter of the OP.
[b]Gehenna and the defeated Christian. [/b]

That reminds me of the movie Titanic. I think one of the musicians was concerned about the sinking ship and another told him to focus on the music he was playing.

Your ship 'HMS OSAS' is full of holes and is sinking Jaywill.

Originally posted by Rajk999
That reminds me of the movie Titanic. I think one of the musicians was concerned about the sinking ship and another told him to focus on the music he was playing.

Your ship 'HMS OSAS' is full of holes and is sinking Jaywill.

Your posts remind me of a musician who can only play one tune no matter what ship he is on.

Originally posted by sonship
Your posts remind me of a musician who can only play one tune no matter what ship he is on.

There is only one ship HMS Jesus Christ and one song "The Gospel of Christ"

Rom_1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Everything else in the Bible is of no value if you fail to OBEY the Gospel of Christ. OBEY and DO .. not talk.

Edit : By the way Jaywill, you preach disobedience to Christ. If your say that all you have to do is to profess Christ with your mouth and you will be saved then that is preaching contrary to what Christ said.

Christ said a zillion times to to OBEY his commandments and THEN only THEN you will get eternal life.

Originally posted by RJHinds
I vaguely remember something we had a disagreement on. But since I can't remember what it was, I must have forgiven you already, but it may be me that needs to ask for forgiveness, since I am the one that is usually be obnoxious.

The Instructor

What? What I'm I reading here? It can't be!!!!!! RJH appologizing? I must be dreaming!!!!! Lol

I think the idea here RJH is to not say things that would warrent an appolgy even if someone disagrees with you?
Just an idea for ya.