Ghost hunters

Originally posted by karoly aczel
I'm no good at providing links.
I believe Stephen Hawking has a warning that we must be prepared to defend ourselves against hostile aliens.

If you dont want to take my word for it, then dont. I really dont care.
Thats not to say I'm not being sincere.
I'm sure this will come out in the wash sooner or later.

Just put it on the backburner or d ...[text shortened]... ghtly fabricating the "news" I have come across. I am just telling it as I came across it.

He said if there is intelligent alien life then we should not go looking for it as it would probably be hostile and we do not have the means to defend ourselves against an aggressor capable of interstellar travel.

He did not say that such beings definitely existed and in fact if the aliens he is imagining did discover us, we would not be getting UFO hunter's experience. It would be more like Independence day without the Hollywood ending.

--- Penguin.

Originally posted by twhitehead
But it isn't 'proof' in any way, shape or form. So far it is your unsubstantiated opinion based on third party information that you refuse to reference. I am afraid it would take more than an open mind to believe that kind of information regardless of the subject.

No amount of this kind of proof will change a closed mind.


Your answer reflects a closed mind.
Heck, I like it.
I like, reading the scientific skeptics on here. They're awesome. You're awesome , twhitehead.

Now , what is it that we are talking about? something outside of ourselves?




It would take an open, initiated mind to have a decent take on this.

Did you catch the tsunami in Japan? ( 😉 )

Originally posted by Penguin
In the broadest sense of evolution as something 'changing over time' with no regards as to whether there is a selective pressure (natural/sexual/artificial/...)

Then I suppose there is certainly cultural evolution, there is probably 'moral' evolution, and there is religious evolution. I don't think there is 'spiritual' evolution though. It is too wooly a ...[text shortened]... anything.

Now that I have answered that, can we get back to the topic?

--- Penguin.

Well, if you think there is no such thing as spiritual evolution, than we cant get back to the topic. Sorry, but it is a prerequisite for my arguement.

Originally posted by Penguin
He said [b]if there is intelligent alien life then we should not go looking for it as it would probably be hostile and we do not have the means to defend ourselves against an aggressor capable of interstellar travel.

He did not say that such beings definitely existed and in fact if the aliens he is imagining did discover us, we would not be get ...[text shortened]... xperience. It would be more like Independence day without the Hollywood ending.

--- Penguin.[/b]

Now why would he say that?

Originally posted by Dasa
I have directly experienced them many times.

I would be interested in hearing about these experiences?

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Now why would he say that?

Although I think it was a bit beyond "if", in his statement. But hey, an "if" from Stephen Hawking is enough for me .Hehehe

Originally posted by buckky
All the ghost hunter shows on tv have proven to me that there are no ghost. All the garbeled recordings that are suppose the be some disimbodied soul trying to communicate sound like static to me. Never do they show any true signs of paranormal activity. I would love to see a real ghost. Then I might get my faith back about such things.

Ghosts are a delusion. They appear to people who are psychologically/physically down in the dumps or people already conditioned to believe in them. Shankaracharya has repeatedly given the example of a tree trunk appearing like a person, in the dark. He states that this is a prime example of Delusion or in Sanskrit Avidya.
He states that we view our world as constant and real which is a delusion.

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
Ghosts are a delusion. They appear to people who are psychologically/physically down in the dumps or people already conditioned to believe in them. Shankaracharya has repeatedly given the example of a tree trunk appearing like a person, in the dark. He states that this is a prime example of Delusion or in Sanskrit Avidya.
He states that we view our world as constant and real which is a delusion.

And because people believe in delusion(s), they allow ghosts to inhabit them.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Well, if you think there is no such thing as spiritual evolution, than we cant get back to the topic. Sorry, but it is a prerequisite for my arguement.

I originally responded to this post of yours:

Even Stphen Hawking admitted the existence of aliens and 1000 people saw a ufo above New York late last year.
No amount of this kind of proof will change a closed mind.

Basically you need a preimise that the universe is not static and the scientific model has always assumed the opposite.

and I said that
1) Stephen Hawking has not admitted the existence of aliens, certainly not of the kind that UFO hunters think that they are seeing.
2) The scientific model has not assumed a static universe for many years (I have just done a quick Google and found that the 'steady state' theory was proposed in the late 40's and pretty much abandoned by the start of the 60's)

I can't imagine how the existence or not of 'spiritual evolution' has anything at all to do with this discussion. Maybe I am misunderstanding the term. Could you describe what you mean by it and how it relates to the existence of aliens (or ghosts)?

--- Penguin.

Originally posted by Penguin
I originally responded to this post of yours:

[b]Even Stphen Hawking admitted the existence of aliens and 1000 people saw a ufo above New York late last year.
No amount of this kind of proof will change a closed mind.

Basically you need a preimise that the universe is not static and the scientific model has always assumed the opposite.

and I sa ...[text shortened]... you mean by it and how it relates to the existence of aliens (or ghosts)?

--- Penguin.[/b]

Since you asked, I will try, but please be patient with me. Most of our communicating is actually done through our body language (with the aid of words), so the absence of our physicalities is going to make this more difficult for me than if we were one to one in the flesh.

I say "spiritual evolution" because evolution has only physical connotations in the scientific realm. Evolution, (the word and meaning) will evolve,(as all language does), as we understand , collectively , our true natures. (ie. our true spiritual natures, which I contend is what we are primarily).

So in the first place science postulates that conciousness comes from the physical evolution of organisms ,(their brains specifically), and not the other way around.
Eastern thought, (like Bhuddism), postulates that the Ground of all being is actually "conciousness".
So I take this to mean that in the beginning (to our universe), there was "god" , or more precisely conciousness. Conciousness is the alpha and omega of all existence and the Big Bang (which I more or less believe in), is just a 'blip' that has brought into existence all that we know.
"God" thrust into motion physicality ,as we know it, and this physicality has evolved (physically) to the point where we find ourselves now. How long did it take? 15 billion years? doesn't matter from an eternal point of view.

Now if you believe that conciousness evolved from physical evolution, then we are already at an impasse. Unless you are willing to entertain the notion that the eternal ground of all being is where we came from , then there is no way we can go on . You must entertain this premise. So we need "time" to evolve brains that will eventually lead us back to the origonal ground and (re-)discover our true natures.
This implies to me that we must start with a premise that ,(psycologically speaking), we have things backwards,(or perhaps upside down).

So:
1. We are eternal , non physical beings by nature, but we have had to go through these "birthing pains",(The BB to now), to evolve our brains to the point where we can make the "leap of faith" ,(individually and collectively-like the Hundred monkeys theory), and return back to "godhead", to our origonal nature(s).

2. 'Living in the now' is highly recommended to get back into touch with our (true)spiritual identities. While we may say we are living in the now, only a spiritually enlightened person (enlightened in the Zen Bhuddist sense), is actually living in the Etenal Now.

3. "Evil" forces have sidetracked "gods" plan , and hence "god" has had to make some revisions in "his" plans so that we can get back on track , and keep evolving spiritually.

4. Our brains are actually like "antennas" ,(is that the plural for "antenna" or is it antenae (?) 😕 ), that can be tuned into the eternal, non physical consiousness (not conciousnesses, but just the one mind, the one conciousness), and hence be "turned on" properly to be used for their origonal purpose, ie. to get back to "god"

5. "God" is not a separate entity. The lise of separation from god is what we are all born into. Our parents weren't lying to us on purpose when they raised us, they just didn't know any better, and in the absence of this knowledge, they have inadvertently passed onto us , without understanding the harmful info that was being included into the other good info that they were teaching us when we were kids.
The illusion of separation (from the rest of creation), the "buffer" between "out there" and "in here" , is the root of all our problems. (Attack the root of the problem and not the branches because the branches just grow back, and stronger too, if you are directing your attention in the wrong place.)

(Going to help neighbour fix fence, will be back in 30 mins to finish this answer)

2 more hours, I promise 🙂

Originally posted by Dasa
There have been whole squadrons of fighter pilots that have witnessed UFO,s.

There have been whole cities of people, that have witnessed UFO,s

There have been police officers on patrol that have witnessed UFO,s

Wake up....

I saw one !!! SO what?? proves nothing. I saw an object that I could not explain or could not identify. What am I supposed to wake up to? It was inconclusive at best.
I explained it in a different post. Someone here said check out ball lighting and it could have been just that but really I don't know.




Manny

Originally posted by karoly aczel
And because people believe in delusion(s), they allow ghosts to inhabit them.

If you are talking about demonic possessions,these are also symptoms of psychological abnormalities like split personality and so on.
I cannot help giving an example here which has a puzzling feature. One of my lower level subordinates, himself a civil engineering diploma holder and quite worldly,told us in our office that his younger brother, a high school dropout, suddenly started behaving violently and screaming and trying to attack anyone who approached him etc. & was therefore taken to a psychiatrist who gave him some medication. The patient quietened down but was talking in an unfamiliar language. Nobody could understand the language. However one day another doctor who was treating him identified the language as absolutely correctly spoken French ! Now how a high school drop out from the backwoods of India could correctly speak French is a mystery. Although a schizophrenic, how the other self of the boy could speak French ?

Originally posted by menace71
I saw one !!! SO what?? proves nothing. I saw an object that I could not explain or could not identify. What am I supposed to wake up to? It was inconclusive at best.
I explained it in a different post. Someone here said check out ball lighting and it could have been just that but really I don't know.




Manny

Was that during the night or day?

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
If you are talking about demonic possessions,these are also symptoms of psychological abnormalities like split personality and so on.
I cannot help giving an example here which has a puzzling feature. One of my lower level subordinates, himself a civil engineering diploma holder and quite worldly,told us in our office that his younger brother, a high s ...[text shortened]... rench is a mystery. Although a schizophrenic, how the other self of the boy could speak French ?

You could call it demonic possesion, i supppose. I call it ghosts inhabiting ones mind/body.

Your example is an extreme one.

I was trying to say that this is more common than one may think, in fact any spiritually ignorant persons mat have spirits/ghosts inhabiting them.

It is the less obvious, less sensational examples that I was trying to get at.

The everyday, even the mundane.
Because if one is not clear on who they are, and has delusions about their personality,character,etc. then one opens oneself to all kinds of distractions and vices that one would "normally" not do.

For example, a young man who may go out on a friday night with his buddies who blames excessive alcohol consumption on actions outside of their "normal" character.

once we have ruled out the gross, base assumptions and sidtracks, we are left with the more subtle, personal biases that may lead one astray.

Why are there 84 000 sutras? Because there are 84 000 follies.

Thank you