Given enough time anything can happen, really!

Originally posted by RJHinds
Yes, I understand, I guess someone has to have the patience
to deal with them. It looks to me like you can't reason with them.
That is why I called them stupid. I decided if they want to believe
their ancestors were apes, then, as stupid as that sounds, let them
be.

Look at it like this, I may not be the one who harvest, but I sure want to make
sure I plant and water when God opens a door, those doors are not always open
and sometimes the water runs off the ground, sometimes the seed dies without
producing anything, I'm not the one who knows what is and isn't going to happen
so I leave the judging to God and just do my small part the best I can and pray
He blesses. I was saved when I was 25 years old and the life I was living before
Christ was not something I think any of the people here were doing, I need to
be saved and forgiven, who am I to hide that from another?
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Look at it like this, I may not be the one who harvest, but I sure want to make
sure I plant and water when God opens a door, those doors are not always open
and sometimes the water runs off the ground, sometimes the seed dies without
producing anything, I'm not the one who knows what is and isn't going to happen
so I leave the judging to God and just d ...[text shortened]... here were doing, I need to
be saved and forgiven, who am I to hide that from another?
Kelly

I don't believe I could reason with them. It would be like
talking to the wall. But if you are willing to spend your
trying, I wish you well and may God bless you.

Originally posted by RJHinds
I don't believe I could reason with them. It would be like
talking to the wall. But if you are willing to spend your
trying, I wish you well and may God bless you.

Based on the energy both of you have put into this general topic of Genesis v. evolution, while you are not judging people in place of God, it does appear that you think God will give significant weight to whether a person believes biological evolution from kind to kind has occurred. Or, are you also refraining from making this judgment? What are your motivations?

Originally posted by JS357
Based on the energy both of you have put into this general topic of Genesis v. evolution, while you are not judging people in place of God, it does appear that you think God will give significant weight to whether a person believes biological evolution from kind to kind has occurred. Or, are you also refraining from making this judgment? What are your motivations?

The only thing a person must believe is that the Son Of God
suffered and died for all our sins against God. If you wish
to believe in any form of evolution, that is your choice. But,
I believe it may be a hinderance in accepting the Holy Bible
as inspired by God or even believing that God exists, much
less, the so called foolishness of the gospel message.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Gen 1
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 0
Gen 2
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 0, A first mutation
Now nothing in the rule book says that the next mutation could not occur anywhere.
Gen 3
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 0, B
Random mutations are just that, nothing would be fixed in place, otherwise you'd
never be able to build something new if something had to be altered.
Kelly

What you seem to have totally missed, is that a parent in Gen 2 will have multiple offspring. Some will have the mutation changing A to B, some will not. Natural selection will result in the B not being selected for, and the A continuing - unless of course B is better for the organism than A.
Do you understand it now?

Originally posted by RJHinds
I don't believe I could reason with them.

That is probably true. Your debating skills are not very good (by your own admission), you knowledge of the topic is practically non-existent, but worst of all, you have a habit of prejudging people. You think you know why we believe what we do, and that incorrect belief (a log in the eye) will continue to blind you and result in you failing to effectively communicate with us.
When you say I am stupid, what do you mean? I have a higher IQ than you, but that is not necessarily a measure of stupidity. You might be a better chess player than I am, but you haven't been here long enough for me to be sure. I am better educated than you, but again that isn't a measure of stupidity.
What you really mean is that you believe I was privy to the same evidence or experiences as you were yet I chose not to be Christian when you did, and that I was stupid to do so. But that is simply not true. My beliefs are based on my experience and knowledge and not only is my atheism not a choice, it is definitely not stupid. My experiences and education have been different from yours.

Originally posted by RJHinds
The only thing a person must believe is that the Son Of God
suffered and died for all our sins against God. If you wish
to believe in any form of evolution, that is your choice. But,
I believe it may be a hinderance in accepting the Holy Bible
as inspired by God or even believing that God exists, much
less, the so called foolishness of the gospel message.

Why do you think evolution denies that the Son Of God suffered and died for all our sins against God?

Originally posted by JS357
Why do you think evolution denies that the Son Of God suffered and died for all our sins against God?

When God created everything there was no death for us, death was due to sin.
It was brought to this place due to sin, the earth was cursed due to sin. With
evolution death is just part of the natural process no different than life itself.
Kelly

Originally posted by JS357
Based on the energy both of you have put into this general topic of Genesis v. evolution, while you are not judging people in place of God, it does appear that you think God will give significant weight to whether a person believes biological evolution from kind to kind has occurred. Or, are you also refraining from making this judgment? What are your motivations?

No, I actually don't think evolution matters one way or another, you can have a
right relationship with God while believing the earth is billions of years old. The
only thing that trully matters is our standing/relationship with God, everything
thing else is just everything else. I think it is important because I believe creation
is true and a godless evolutionary processes isn't, and I argue for that reason.
It would be a kin to driving down the roads and streets without knowing the truth
of all the trafffic laws, if you grasp reality driving is better than if you just drive
not knowing what red means on the stop lights.
Kelly

Originally posted by twhitehead
What you seem to have totally missed, is that a parent in Gen 2 will have multiple offspring. Some will have the mutation changing A to B, some will not. Natural selection will result in the B not being selected for, and the A continuing - unless of course B is better for the organism than A.
Do you understand it now?

I understand that, and still I don't think you are going to get enough of these to
push through all the issues life would face. We are just talking about mutations
in this part of the discussion, in addition to these you have ever changing conditions
that life would have to survive and thrive in, and early on anything could have
stopped that! Building stable systems is still your problem, because nothing is
sure, seeing that changes also had to occur in such ways that all life forms that
has male and females would not only have to change, but change together! You
really think independent mutations within sexes would continue to do that all
over the place within all of the life we see today, seriously!
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
When God created everything there was no death for us, death was due to sin.
It was brought to this place due to sin, the earth was cursed due to sin. With
evolution death is just part of the natural process no different than life itself.
Kelly

I was picking up on RJ's statement that: The only thing a person must believe is that the Son Of God suffered and died for all our sins against God. I was not aware of the idea that it was also important to believe how death came into the world.

Originally posted by JS357
I was picking up on RJ's statement that: The only thing a person must believe is that the Son Of God suffered and died for all our sins against God. I was not aware of the idea that it was also important to believe how death came into the world.

Why would Jesus need to die for our sins to stop a natural part of the process of
life?
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
No, I actually don't think evolution matters one way or another, you can have a
right relationship with God while believing the earth is billions of years old. The
only thing that trully matters is our standing/relationship with God, everything
thing else is just everything else. I think it is important because I believe creation
is true and a godless e ...[text shortened]... riving is better than if you just drive
not knowing what red means on the stop lights.
Kelly

Do you think evolutionary processes must be godless?

Originally posted by JS357
Do you think evolutionary processes must be godless?

🙂 I think godlessness is, evolutionary processes I actually believe in, just not to
the degree it is given credit for, for forming all life after life starts from non-living
matter.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I understand that, and still I don't think you are going to get enough of these to
push through all the issues life would face.

Did you understand it before my post explaining it? If you did, why the previous posts that clearly indicate you didn't understand it?

We are just talking about mutations
in this part of the discussion, in addition to these you have ever changing conditions
that life would have to survive and thrive in, and early on anything could have
stopped that!
True. And quite often, it does. Species die out all the time. We have even had several episodes on the earth where a significant number of species got wiped out. These were clearly due to extreme environment changes.

Building stable systems is still your problem, because nothing is
sure, seeing that changes also had to occur in such ways that all life forms that
has male and females would not only have to change, but change together!
Not all life forms have male and female. The majority of the more complicated life forms do and the reason for this that sex makes evolution work a lot more effectively - because it allows the reshuffling of genes.
But your argument here has become vague. Essentially you are claiming incredulity, but do not have the requisite knowledge or statistics to backup that incredulity.

You really think independent mutations within sexes would continue to do that all
over the place within all of the life we see today, seriously!
Kelly
Yes. I seriously do. For a start, as I have already pointed out, in humans, the only genes that evolve independently are those on the Y chromosome. All other genes evolve in both sexes at once.
What I don't really get is why you believe it would somehow make evolution less believable.