06 Apr '07 15:07>
There has been some talk here recently about whether or not God* can fail—
Can God’s “plan for salvation” (however you see that) in the end fail? What would constitute a failure?
There seem to me to be only two ways in which God could be considered not to fail:
(1) God from the beginning did not want (and does not want) all humans to be saved.
(2) All humans will ultimately be saved (albeit, perhaps, with a healing spell in hell—ala such as St. Gregory of Nyssa).
If God desires salvation for all humankind, but intervening factors (e.g., free will, human wickedness, original guilt, etc.) operate to frustrate that desire, then God—even through becoming human and dying as such—will have failed to achieve what he wills. Whether you say shame on God, or shame on Satan, or shame on us doesn’t matter.
If God does not desire the salvation of all humankind, then God created beings in such a way that he knows they will eventually be in a state of eternal torment (if that is your vision of hell).
* Referencing the famous 3-O super-being God here; not every notion of God falls into this box...
Can God’s “plan for salvation” (however you see that) in the end fail? What would constitute a failure?
There seem to me to be only two ways in which God could be considered not to fail:
(1) God from the beginning did not want (and does not want) all humans to be saved.
(2) All humans will ultimately be saved (albeit, perhaps, with a healing spell in hell—ala such as St. Gregory of Nyssa).
If God desires salvation for all humankind, but intervening factors (e.g., free will, human wickedness, original guilt, etc.) operate to frustrate that desire, then God—even through becoming human and dying as such—will have failed to achieve what he wills. Whether you say shame on God, or shame on Satan, or shame on us doesn’t matter.
If God does not desire the salvation of all humankind, then God created beings in such a way that he knows they will eventually be in a state of eternal torment (if that is your vision of hell).
* Referencing the famous 3-O super-being God here; not every notion of God falls into this box...