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    30 Jul '07 13:27
    Thats very convenient. If someone helps themself they don't need help anyway, and how do we know any positive results were brought about by God when it could very possibly have been brought about by the person who helped themself.

    And what about people who can't help themselves, such as profoundly disabled and retarded people. Are we to take it that God will not help them because they can't help themselves? That's not very Christian. In fact God doesn't seem to help retarded people much, that job is left for families and the state.

    God helps those who help themselves............what a stupid thing to say. I'm not criticising "God", I'm criticising a religion that says stupid things.
  2. Joined
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    30 Jul '07 13:42
    Originally posted by twiceaknight
    Thats very convenient. If someone helps themself they don't need help anyway, and how do we know any positive results were brought about by God when it could very possibly have been brought about by the person who helped themself.

    And what about people who can't help themselves, such as profoundly disabled and retarded people. Are we to take it that ...[text shortened]... to say. I'm not criticising "God", I'm criticising a religion that says stupid things.
    What religion says this?
  3. SubscriberKingDavid403
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    30 Jul '07 13:47
    Originally posted by twiceaknight
    Thats very convenient. If someone helps themself they don't need help anyway, and how do we know any positive results were brought about by God when it could very possibly have been brought about by the person who helped themself.

    And what about people who can't help themselves, such as profoundly disabled and retarded people. Are we to take it that ...[text shortened]... to say. I'm not criticising "God", I'm criticising a religion that says stupid things.
    God helps those who realize they can't help themselfs, and turn to Him for help.
  4. Joined
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    30 Jul '07 14:27
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    What religion says this?
    It's something I have been told all my life by Christians. Have you never heard it before?
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    30 Jul '07 14:37
    Originally posted by twiceaknight
    It's something I have been told all my life by Christians. Have you never heard it before?
    I've heard it, but it doesn't seem to be consistent with my understanding of the message that Jesus brought. Perhaps it's a rationalization for those who have trouble truly following His teachings.
  6. SubscriberKingDavid403
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    30 Jul '07 14:471 edit
    Originally posted by twiceaknight
    It's something I have been told all my life by Christians. Have you never heard it before?
    Yes I've heard it before. And I've even had several supposed christians claim to me it is written in the Bible. Then I ask them to show me were, and of course they can't. and then I tell them that it is not written anywhere in the bible.
    Oh really???? is usually their response.

    This is just one reason why it is so important to read the bible yourselfs. I've heard way bigger lies than this one.
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    30 Jul '07 17:131 edit
    Tis a traditional saying like "Cleanliness is next to godliness."

    It is not in the Bible.
  8. Standard memberRajk999
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    30 Jul '07 18:26
    Originally posted by jaywill
    Tis a traditional saying like "Cleanliness is next to godliness."

    It is not in the Bible.
    Although neither sayings can be found in the Bible, they both have Biblical support . In the Bible , the words 'clean' and unclean' appear almost 600 times as God gave instructions on the lifestyle the Jews must live. In the NT Christ's parable of the talents is a clear indication that, to those who work more will be given and those who do not, even the small amount that they have will be taken away.
  9. SubscriberKingDavid403
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    30 Jul '07 20:303 edits
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    [b]Although neither sayings can be found in the Bible, they both have Biblical support . In the Bible , the words 'clean' and unclean' appear almost 600 times as God gave instructions on the lifestyle the Jews must live. bIn the NT Christ's parable of the talents is a clear indication that, to those who work more will be given and those who do not, even the small amount that they have will be taken away.[/]
    God helps those who help themselfs.

    (In the NT Christ's parable of the talents is a clear indication that, to those who work more will be given and those who do not, even the small amount that they have will be taken away.)

    The parable of the talents you are referring to are in Mathew chapter 25: verses 14-30.
    I see the talents as my God given abilites to do the will of God, aka, Jesus. It has not much to do with working a job, or working for myself in my opnion.
    If you keep reading in Mathew chapter 25 and read verses 31 threw 46 Jesus explains some of His will that we should do for Him.

    Mathew 25:35 For I ( meaning anyone) was hungry and you gave ME food. I was thirsty and you gave ME drink.
    25:36 I was naked and you clothed ME. I was sick and you visited ME; I was in prison and you came to visit ME.

    I see none of these things as helping myself. In fact if you really think about it they all kinda put me out of my personal life on this earth. Or mostly put me out of my personal comfort zone.
    And they are all about helping & loving OTHERS in need. No matter what their reason. and without judging them.

    I am not saying in anyway that being lazy or not working has anything to do with God's will.
    In fact he gives us the choice. Those who don't work won't eat. If they can work and have something to eat. Don't cry to God for food if He's supplying you a job or a means to have food to eat.
    If you are broke and don't have food and someone offers you food and you refuse it because of pride. guess what? Your going to bed hungry tonight.


    If God helps those that help themselfs is a traditional christian saying,
    I would think it needs to change to, God helps those that help others, And shows love to others. Or something like that.
    In my opinion.
  10. Joined
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    30 Jul '07 23:491 edit
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Although neither sayings can be found in the Bible, they both have Biblical support . In the Bible , the words 'clean' and unclean' appear almost 600 times as God gave instructions on the lifestyle the Jews must live. In the NT Christ's parable of the talents is a clear indication that, to those who work more will be given and those who do not, even the small amount that they have will be taken away.
    It is true that there are spiritual dangers for a person to fall into passivity. But it is important to realize that in the new covenant the "help" that God renders to people is "helping" them to live Christ.

    "I am crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith of the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself up for me." (Gal. 2:20)

    God helps believers to learn to let Christ live in them.

    God helps people into the realm of Jesus Christ. And the troublesome circumstances believers find themselves in are designed to "help" them to live dependent and in union with Jesus. The help that man needs is the help to live by Christ, live out Christ, and live unto Christ by the grace of Christ.

    The "Helper" or the "Comforter" of the Holy Spirit always helps the believers to be more reliant on Christ as their life and life supply.

    The help God renders man is helping man into union with God Himself. Sometimes God will just help you. But this is elementary help to soften your heart so that you open up to Him more.
  11. Standard memberwittywonka
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    31 Jul '07 03:12
    Originally posted by twiceaknight
    Thats very convenient. If someone helps themself they don't need help anyway, and how do we know any positive results were brought about by God when it could very possibly have been brought about by the person who helped themself.

    And what about people who can't help themselves, such as profoundly disabled and retarded people. Are we to take it that ...[text shortened]... to say. I'm not criticising "God", I'm criticising a religion that says stupid things.
    I was just about to start a thread on how that phrase held little if any truth.
  12. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    31 Jul '07 03:48
    Originally posted by wittywonka
    I was just about to start a thread on how that phrase held little if any truth.
    Are you saying it is false that God helps those who help themselves?
  13. Standard memberwittywonka
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    31 Jul '07 04:52
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    Are you saying it is false that God helps those who help themselves?
    I was going to start a thread talking about how (in my opinion) the phrase "God only helps those who helps themselves" is false.

    Sorry for the misunderstanding.
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    31 Jul '07 16:13
    Originally posted by KingDavid403
    Yes I've heard it before. And I've even had several supposed christians claim to me it is written in the Bible. Then I ask them to show me were, and of course they can't. and then I tell them that it is not written anywhere in the bible.
    Oh really???? is usually their response.

    This is just one reason why it is so important to read the bible yourselfs. I've heard way bigger lies than this one.
    Tell me a big lie!!!
  15. Standard memberblakbuzzrd
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    31 Jul '07 17:10
    Originally posted by Jay Joos
    Tell me a big lie!!!
    Jaywill is led by the Spirit of Christ in what he posts here.
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