God stompers ...

Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
well you cant, as you can see.

Well not you that's true, but open minded thoughtful people maybe ...

Originally posted by amannion
Well not you that's true, but open minded thoughtful people maybe ...

i am open minded and thoughtful, and it is very hard to believe that God created everything because it doesnt explain who created God. but it is even more hard to believe that everything is a natural cause and just coincidently we got lucky enough to be so intelligent and not like the rest of the animals.

Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
i am open minded and thoughtful, and it is very hard to believe that God created everything because it doesnt explain who created God. but it is even more hard to believe that everything is a natural cause and just coincidently we got lucky enough to be so intelligent and not like the rest of the animals.

Why is that hard to believe?
If something develops intelligence why not us? Why not a natural cause?
Isn't it better to develop a natural explanation than to rely on supernatural causes? That way lies faeries, unicorns, easter bunnies and more. Do you really believe they exist?

Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
you act like theists are attacking you or something, you dont believe it, you ignore it, and it is end of story.

Yeah, right! 🙄 Practically everyone in this forum criticizes the beliefs of others, yourself included. Perhaps you need to re-read a few threads and refresh your memory.

Originally posted by amannion
Why is that hard to believe?
If something develops intelligence why not us? Why not a natural cause?
Isn't it better to develop a natural explanation than to rely on supernatural causes? That way lies faeries, unicorns, easter bunnies and more. Do you really believe they exist?

no youre so dumb to assume i believe in that stuff. i believe in God or Gods that is all

Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
no youre so dumb to assume i believe in that stuff. i believe in God or Gods that is all

Don't recall saying I thought you believed in it but nevermind, what I was saying was that why stop with a God, why not believe in the other stuff - they're all supernatural.

Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
you act like theists are attacking you or something, you dont believe it, you ignore it, and it is end of story.

Actually I started posting here because I felt that some religious people were directly attacking science (The ID folks) and attempting to get our children taught some lies in school.

Originally posted by amannion
Why is that hard to believe?

Here are some anologies on the odds it would take for that to happen.

The odds of a man going outside one day and finding the winning lottery ticket and beoming a millionaire, but doing it every day for the next 1,000,000 years.

The odds of a tornado hitting a junkyard, spinning everything around and it all comes together to build a Boeing 747, fueled and ready for takeoff.

The odds of taking 5 people and giving them each 5 slips of paper, each a different color, then having someone guess what color each of them chose 75,000 times.

Originally posted by Acemaster
Here are some anologies on the odds it would take for that to happen.

The odds of a man going outside one day and finding the winning lottery ticket and beoming a millionaire, but doing it every day for the next 1,000,000 years.

The odds of a tornado hitting a junkyard, spinning everything around and it all comes together to build a Boeing 747, fuele ...[text shortened]... r, each a different color, then having someone guess what color each of them chose 75,000 times.

Yeah heard all that before. Odds are great but even incredibly unlikely things can happen, and the odds are so high for many things - such as the natural origin of life - because we don't understand the process that might allow them to occur yet.
Still, I'd rather go for the high odds of a natural explanation than to believe in fairy tales. Fairy tales are nice when you're a child - but sooner or later you've got to grow up.

Originally posted by Acemaster
Here are some anologies on the odds it would take for that to happen.

The odds of a man going outside one day and finding the winning lottery ticket and beoming a millionaire, but doing it every day for the next 1,000,000 years.

The odds of a tornado hitting a junkyard, spinning everything around and it all comes together to build a Boeing 747, fuele ...[text shortened]... r, each a different color, then having someone guess what color each of them chose 75,000 times.

more odds:

The chances of me recreating my rubbish bin exactly the way it is now...surely I must have designed it eh?

The odds of 10000 people flipping a coin once and eventually generating a sequence of: H,T,H,T,T...,,(9990 flips)..,,H,H,H,H,H are (1/2)^10000. The odds are so massively stacked against them that we can only expect that God is designing each and every flip of every coin so as to arrive at such results.

There are an uncountable number of different ways we could have turned out...it just so happens that with each generation, there may exist some creatures that are able to fend off death such that it's genes will be passed on to future generations..a small mutation here, a small one there probably doesn't amount to too much in many cases; but cumulatively these adjustments to a creatures construct will eventually confer either an appreciable advantage or dis-advantage to it over other creatures that share less of these mutations. Considering the odds of us being the way we are is a strawman because it need not be assumed that we absolutely had to turn out like this, nor is our make up a totally random configuration derived in a short space of time that just so happens to work...
For each generation we were well enough adapted to the environment so as to reproduce...had the habitats our ancestors lived in been different, or the sequence by which creatures that died all the way through history had been different, we would have turned out radically different too.

Originally posted by Acemaster
Here are some anologies on the odds it would take for that to happen.

The odds of a man going outside one day and finding the winning lottery ticket and beoming a millionaire, but doing it every day for the next 1,000,000 years.

The odds of a tornado hitting a junkyard, spinning everything around and it all comes together to build a Boeing 747, fuele ...[text shortened]... r, each a different color, then having someone guess what color each of them chose 75,000 times.

Similarly unlikely odds:

The odds that you really know what you are talking about.

The odds that your analogies are an accurate reflection of the odds for life to occur.

Originally posted by twhitehead
The odds that your analogies are an accurate reflection of the odds for life to occur.

Life to occur that way, anyhow.

Originally posted by Acemaster
Life to occur that way, anyhow.

So it's easier to believe in faeries then is it?

Originally posted by Acemaster
Life to occur that way, anyhow.

Which way would that be? Do you mean the probability that life started from non-life by purely natural processes? How did you calculate those odds?

Creationism (or ID) explains creation from the notion that the eternal,
non-created, all powerful being we decided to call God said this and that
and creation was a fact six days later (after which, despite being all
powerful, God needed a day to rest). We couldn't possibly verify this
scientifically and so it's one of the things from the bible that
fundamentalists can hang on to as a possible literal truth.

Evolution describes how biological life on earth can change slightly
between generations. The changes are random, but if a certain quality
will give you an advantage in your specific natural environment you will
be more likely to pass on your genes to a new generation than those
who doesn't have that advantage. So, with each new generation we are
more suited to the environment we live in, and when the environment
changes, we change (between generations). Like those elephants in
India (I think it was) that are now born without tusks because of the
merciless hunting. This is like evolution on speed. If you're an elephant
(and we all know you are) with tusks, it's much more likely you'll be shot
than if you don't have any tusks. This is exactly what has
happened. Elephants without tusks survive to procreate and now there
are very few elephants being born with the genes that will grow them
tusks. Or so I hear. Now, I've often encountered the argument that
elephants are still elephants. They didn't magically turn into pigs. But
that's easily explained. Every little cent makes a fortune in the end.
Small changes over time such as the general size of Indian elephants,
important traits such as tusks, the length of the trunk, the size of the
brain and so on and so forth, will eventually (after many generations)
give elephants with a very different appearance than today. In fact,
they won't even be elephants, any more than we are pre-historic apes.
I'm sure that a million years from now they will look at their findings and
think that the skeletons they dig up couldn't possibly be their own
ancestors (despite various similarities).

Intelligent Design speaks of the beginning of life and will tell you that
nothing really changes over time. Evolution says absolutely nothing
about how life once began but shows clearly the process of how
everything biological changes over time. One is pure fantasy, and the
other is a theory based on observation, dealing only with that which is
observable to us.

Now, which is more believable? You can have faith that God created
everything even though there's no observable proof, but you cannot
deny that evolution happens. Not now. Not after over a century of
observations. You could say that evolution doesn't explain the origins of
life, but then again, it's not trying to.