God

Originally posted by Pianoman1
That's the problem with words. They limit, imprison, judge, mislead.

And the most misleading thing of all, is calling whatever it is you are trying to describe 'God' as this tends to conjure up images of the Abrahamic God, or at least some intelligent entity with very human like properties when in actual fact you seem to be trying to describe something altogether different.

Originally posted by Pianoman1
...... the only sincere position is one of disbelief with the proviso that if he were to suddenly revel himself then I would be open to belief.

With the further provisio that upon revelation your belief should only extend as far as the revealed properties. It is a common error to observe one phenomena and take it as evidence for a much larger set of claims made by someone else that are not necessarily backed up by the phenomena in question.
For example, if you pray, and your prayers are answered to a degree that exceeds reasonable coincidence, then you may decide that something is going on beyond coincidence. But if you then conclude that it is a result of God answering your prayers and specifically the Abrahamic God as described in the Bible and that everything about him as described in the Bible is true etc etc then you are going way beyond the evidence.
Similarly, (I recall discussing this with karoly aczel in the past) if you hear voices in your head telling you they are aliens etc, without significant evidence that they are in fact aliens talking to you, the most reasonable conclusions would be that it is a hallucination, or possibly some scientist somewhere that has discovered telepathy. Actual aliens, or Satan, should remain quite a long way down the list of likely explanations. And most importantly, you shouldn't conclude that they are little green men.

Originally posted by Pianoman1
God, like music, is, of course, beyond the humble word. 
As soon as we begin to describe God, we lose him.
I could say God is the reflection of the moon on a still lake.
I would be wrong, but also right..
I could say God is the sussuration of a butterfly's wings at sunset.
I would be wrong, but also right.
I could say God is all around and in and out ...[text shortened]... dge, mislead.

An old silent pond... 
A frog jumps into the pond, 
splash! Silence again. 

And so it goes...

I am perfect in every way right now - as are you 🙂

Originally posted by twhitehead
With the further provisio that upon revelation your belief should only extend as far as the revealed properties. It is a common error to observe one phenomena and take it as evidence for a much larger set of claims made by someone else that are not necessarily backed up by the phenomena in question.
For example, if you pray, and your prayers are answered ...[text shortened]... kely explanations. And most importantly, you shouldn't conclude that they are little green men.

I know it's all crap, twitehead.

It's when everything is doing it's job right that you dont notice them.
Every now and then when an aberasion like me occurs you have to put it don to a fault in the system.

Originally posted by twhitehead
With the further provisio that upon revelation your belief should only extend as far as the revealed properties. It is a common error to observe one phenomena and take it as evidence for a much larger set of claims made by someone else that are not necessarily backed up by the phenomena in question.
For example, if you pray, and your prayers are answered ...[text shortened]... kely explanations. And most importantly, you shouldn't conclude that they are little green men.

you should note some other things I say about aliens - like that most of them are crap and untrue.

"little green men" is not something that I have experienced i any way shape or form except of course through tabloid media

Originally posted by twhitehead
And the most misleading thing of all, is calling whatever it is you are trying to describe 'God' as this tends to conjure up images of the Abrahamic God.

Not really.

It's just a word.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
And so it goes...

I am perfect in every way right now - as are you 🙂

I bow to you.

Originally posted by twhitehead
For example, if you pray, and your prayers are answered to a degree that exceeds reasonable coincidence, then you may decide that something is going on beyond coincidence.

Praying to an entity outside of yourself is, I suggest, a weakness. If prayer works, it is by clearing the mind, calming any agitations in the mind, focusing on the problem, seeing the clear light of reason. If that is prayer, then I am in flavour of it. However, in my experience, too many people are confronted with a problem and seek help from outside of themselves, by praying to an entity to help them in their time of need. As if God were able to simultaneously listen to 65 billion people at the same time!

Originally posted by karoly aczel
you should note some other things I say about aliens - like that most of them are crap and untrue.

"little green men" is not something that I have experienced i any way shape or form except of course through tabloid media

And I didn't mean to suggest that you did. But other people do. My point is that it is remarkably common for people to experience a phenomena and attribute to it things they have heard from other people. When it comes to aliens for example, you will find that the reports are cultural and date related.

Originally posted by Pianoman1
I bow to you.

AS do I.

Originally posted by twhitehead
And I didn't mean to suggest that you did. But other people do. My point is that it is remarkably common for people to experience a phenomena and attribute to it things they have heard from other people. When it comes to aliens for example, you will find that the reports are cultural and date related.

Yes. I have found that.
And it is always wise to be skeptical

Originally posted by whodey
Those practicing Muslims are practicing their faith. Personally I view it to be a faith that is misplaced, but they try to walk the walk nonetheless.

My only point here is that those who believe in something and do nothing with their believe are no different than those who do not beleive.

Yes, even the Bible has harsh words indeed for hypocrites.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Point blank question: Do you believe in "God" (with a big "g" ) in any way shape or form?

I do, but my concepts of "God" do not seem to coincide with any other posters here except maybe a few who seem to deny the existence of "God".

I feel I am all alone in my beliefs and yet no one can come close to explaining to me why I am wrong.

But lets just keep it simple to start with, eh?

Wrong question karoly.

You might ask, "do you believe God?"

Originally posted by josephw
Wrong question karoly.

You might ask, "do you believe God?"

Um no , not really. Your question already assumes God exists. I want to know if people believed God existed, not whether they listen and obey It/Him.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Point blank question: Do you believe in "God" (with a big "g" ) in any way shape or form?

I do, but my concepts of "God" do not seem to coincide with any other posters here except maybe a few who seem to deny the existence of "God".

I feel I am all alone in my beliefs and yet no one can come close to explaining to me why I am wrong.

But lets just keep it simple to start with, eh?

An outright no - I do not believe "God" exists. Indeed I go further to say I don't even consider myself as agnostic about this - I firmly convinced it is make-believe. Moreover if (for the sake of intellectual honesty) I have to be agnostic, then the extent to which I doubt my conviction it doesn't exist is less than my doubt that 4.2944626494857362595736 + sqrt(3) is your lucky number.