God's country ?

@galveston75 said
If god had a country, what would it be like?

According to your theology, doesn't He "have" them all? Doesn't Romans 13:1-2 mean that [you believe that] your God takes responsibility for establishing, instituting and putting in place every government in the world?

@philokalia said
I don't get the elevating consumerism part, by the way.

Did you agree or disagree with my answer? You asked me something ~ which I addressed ~ but then you vanished.

@fmf said
You mentioned earlier that American Christians feel blessed by God because of the "amazing" prosperity of their country. This prosperity plays itself out in terms of materialism, consumerism and even military power, does it not?

Prosperity when it is used to make it so your children can go to university and travel to see the world, pursue the arts, etc. is absolutely great.

The problem is, of course, is that some people misuse their prosperity for negative things.

The problem with military power is that it can also be abused.

But, we had the initial blessings, and we used them well for decades. At least, in my opinion. ^^

@fmf said
Regardless of whether it has a dark side, it's still a kind of Christian narcissism, though, don't you think? You know... people with their own 'personal Jesus' living in a country that they believe, more or less, has its own 'personal Jesus' who supposedly doesn't see other countries the same way. Narcissistic jingoism, something like that. It risks being a bit 'un-Christian', I would have thought.

It is not narcissistic to say that you are blessed and to give credit to God.

OF course, I guess, it COULD be phrased or done in such a way.

We aren't talking about anything now.

@philokalia said
It is not narcissistic to say that you are blessed and to give credit to God.

OF course, I guess, it COULD be phrased or done in such a way.

We aren't talking about anything now.

Americans ~ or people of any nationality ~ "giving credit to God" for their fortune and the millions of American evangelical who believe, narcissistically and jingoistically, that the U.S. is "God's country" to the exclusion of all others, are totally different, as you well know. But I see what you tried to do there.

@fmf said
Americans ~ or people of any nationality ~ "giving credit to God" for their fortune and the millions of American evangelical who believe, narcissistically and jingoistically, that the U.S. is "God's country" to the exclusion of all others, are totally different, as you well know. But I see what you tried to do there.

I do not really know people who think like that.

I know some people who are very conservative and nationalistic, but I think if someone were to say that the Ukraine is God's country, or some other Christian place was also God's country, I do not think they would contend with it.

@philokalia said
I do not really know people who think like that.

Maybe this means you are unable to say anything valid about them, then.

@fmf said
According to your theology, doesn't He "have" them all? Doesn't Romans 13:1-2 mean that [you believe that] your God takes responsibility for establishing, instituting and putting in place every government in the world?

Is that what these scriptures say? No and I'll tell you why. Read them again.....

Romans 13:1-2
"Let every person be in subjection to the superior authorities, for there is no authority except by God; the existing authorities stand placed in their ((( relative positions ))) by God.
2. Therefore, whoever opposes the authority has taken a stand against the arrangement of God; those who have taken a stand against it will bring judgment against themselves.

So to help understand this a little clearer what did Jesus say about governments especially about the Roman government and what Christians are to owe them? Do we owe them our allegiance, our life's, or whatever they may ask of us? No.
Jesus answered this when a coin with Caesar's face on it was shown:
Matthew 22:21
"Then he said to them: “Pay back, therefore, Caesar’s things to Caesar, but God’s things to God.”

Jesus also made it very clear many times that his followers were to be no part of this world" which would mean our actions with all of the world which would include it's governments and politics.
The only thing we owe any government would be taxes as well as the bible says it's laws but only "as long as they don't go against God's laws". Paying taxes is not breaking any of God's laws. But going to war and fighting for your government is for example.

So to answer your question. If all the governments were set up by God personally so to say and had his approval, Jesus would have made that clear. Jesus himself would no doubt gotten involved with the government on some level to probably try to straighten it all out.
So those scriptures are explaining that God allows them to exist as verse 1 says in a "relative position". He has been letting man govern themselves for thousands of years and even up to today have done a terrible job at it. But yet Jehovah has let man try every type of government they can come up with.
But it is not quite time for Jehovah and his son to finally stop it all at Armageddon. So until that day comes God has allowed all these governments to exist. Even as crappy as so many are they do at least have some laws and do take some efforts to make life bearable in most areas.
This is what those scriptures are saying. Jesus said his followers were to be no part of the world in political senses but we are still to obey and support all laws of all countries unless they go against God's laws. At this time is God's arrangement for all humans. If he didn't allow them to exist the world would be complete chaos.

@galveston75 said
Paying taxes is not breaking any of God's laws. But going to war and fighting for your government is for example.

So you don’t believe in homeland defence then?

@divegeester said
So you don’t believe in homeland defence then?

If it's what my government or any government does, that is up to them. If they use my tax money to do that, it is up to them. God allows them all to exist but their time is about up.
So I know your angle on this is why would I not want my family to be protected by my governments army or police.
I appreciate what ever my country decides to do to protect me either by it's army or by the red light on the corner to keep my family from getting hit by another car. I appreciate the hospitals that my government may supply to me and my family as well as the local police department. I give them all respect that is due them.
But this is not Jehovah's government. Many of the people in it can be corrupted and might sell out anything for money. That's a fact of mans world.
God has made it clear they will all go down at Armageddon. So what good they may provide, I appreciate it. But I have no faith in any of them to ever provide what Jehovah will for deserving humans in the future..

@galveston75 said
Is that what these scriptures say? No and I'll tell you why. Read them again.....

Romans 13:1-2
"Let every person be in subjection to the superior authorities, for there is no authority except by God; the existing authorities stand placed in their ((( relative positions ))) by God.
2. Therefore, whoever opposes the authority has taken a stand against the arrangemen ...[text shortened]... od's arrangement for all humans. If he didn't allow them to exist the world would be complete chaos.

Romans 13:1-2 says that the governments of the world are established, given their authority, and put in place by God and he demands subjection to them.

@fmf said
Romans 13:1-2 says that the governments of the world are established, given their authority, and put in place by God and he demands subjection to them.

Understand it as you see fit.....

@galveston75 said
Understand it as you see fit.....

Unlike you, I am not adding to the words in the 2 Bible verses.

@galveston75 said
Is that what these scriptures say?

"God's country?" in light of Romans 13:1-2... all of them, it would seem.

@fmf said
"God's country?" in light of Romans 13:1-2... all of them, it would seem.

So if they are all his and as you think he set them up and is in control as I'm assuming that's what you mean, it would appear he's not doing a very good job. Look at all the suffering that's going on now.
If they are his why does the bible say that he's going to destroy them at Armageddon?
If they are his why does Jesus not only tell us to stay neutral and not get involved in politics?

Think about it with the rest of the Bible or ask Jehovah for an answer.