Gods unconditional love

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes it appears to me that there are conditions attached to being a recipient of Gods love. What I want to explore is the other side, whether a case can be made for Gods unconditional love, so far the evidence has been less than compelling.

This is one example that makes me confused about the christian ideology.

In my world A means A. If I use A that means that I like to think that the responder also thinks A. If not, A is not well defined or useless.

Put A = "unconditional", that mean that whenever I use "unconditional" it should mean the same. You cannot use "unconditional" if you don't mean "unconditional", meaning "without any conditions attached".

"Unconditional" can mean different things depending if we are in the spiritual forum or in the science forum. In spiritual forum words have to be interpreted, sometimes even heavily interpreted. And that's why there are so many denominations in the christian religion.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
This is one example that makes me confused about the christian ideology.

In my world A means A. If I use A that means that I like to think that the responder also thinks A. If not, A is not well defined or useless.

Put A = "unconditional", that mean that whenever I use "unconditional" it should mean the same. You cannot use "unconditional" if you do ...[text shortened]... n heavily interpreted. And that's why there are so many denominations in the christian religion.

Although its off topic, even scientific data is open to interpretation 😀

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Although its off topic, even scientific data is open to interpretation 😀

Well, yes, to a degree.

But when the the interpretation of a term ( like "planet" ) is not agree upon, then it is discussed until everyone is agreed, even vote for it. (Yes, Pluto is not a planet, astronomers agree now, but not in the beginning. If it was religious, then a new denomination would be started.) ...yes ... off-topic.

Now we talk about "unconditional" which mean something here and something else there. I have to give my soul to god unconditionally in order to have his love. But his unconditional love needs certain conditions from me. That's what I don't get.

What is the definition of "unconditional" that every christian can agree upon in every sitiuation?

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Well, yes, to a degree.

But when the the interpretation of a term ( like "planet" ) is not agree upon, then it is discussed until everyone is agreed, even vote for it. (Yes, Pluto is not a planet, astronomers agree now, but not in the beginning. If it was religious, then a new denomination would be started.) ...yes ... off-topic.

Now we talk about ...[text shortened]... at is the definition of "unconditional" that every christian can agree upon in every sitiuation?

I cannot say with any certainty, although what is readily apparent is that no one has been able to proffer any evidence for Gods unconditional love or at least none that is particularly convincing.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I cannot say with any certainty, although what is readily apparent is that no one has been able to proffer any evidence for Gods unconditional love or at least none that is particularly convincing.

I don't think it is even possible to prove anything in religion. Everything supernatural has to be based on faith, and faith alone. And the most important fact about god is his existence, and not even that can be proven. And without that, the (un)conditional love of god just have to be taken as granted with faith.
So without faith you have nothing. With faith you have it all.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
I don't think it is even possible to prove anything in religion. Everything supernatural has to be based on faith, and faith alone. And the most important fact about god is his existence, and not even that can be proven. And without that, the (un)conditional love of god just have to be taken as granted with faith.
So without faith you have nothing. With faith you have it all.

John 3:16

English Standard Version (ESV)

16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.


Romans 5:8

English Standard Version (ESV)

8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.


Not sure what you folks are looking for, but if this does not express unconditional love, I don't know what will.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Well, yes, to a degree.

But when the the interpretation of a term ( like "planet" ) is not agree upon, then it is discussed until everyone is agreed, even vote for it. (Yes, Pluto is not a planet, astronomers agree now, but not in the beginning. If it was religious, then a new denomination would be started.) ...yes ... off-topic.

Now we talk about ...[text shortened]... at is the definition of "unconditional" that every christian can agree upon in every sitiuation?

I have to give my soul to god unconditionally in order to have his love

Ahhhhhh, no!

You do not have to give anything to God for his unconditional love, it does not depend on you whatsoever.

Romans 5:8

English Standard Version (ESV)

8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Originally posted by yoctobyte
John 3:16

[b]English Standard Version (ESV)

16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.


Romans 5:8

English Standard Version (ESV)

8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.


Not sure what you folks are looking for, but if this does not express unconditional love, I don't know what will.[/b]

So how would you explain the "unconditional love" according to the three examples I gave in posting #46, page 4 in this thread?

Are there two kinds of "unconditional love" that are mutually exclusive?

I wouldn't like to be "unconditionally loved" by anyone who kills out the entire population of the planet, except eight? Or one who threatens with swimming in lakes of fire for the rest of eternity? Or to be burnt alive because I don't agree with gods representatives?

Originally posted by FabianFnas
[b]"Gods unconditional love"

Of course gods 'love' is conditional, very much so.

Example 1: The flood. If god loved the human population of the world so unconditionally, then why did he kill everyone but only eight people? It's like saying that Hitler loved jews unconditionally, so he would like to kill them all (but eight).

Example 2: The ul ...[text shortened]... unconditional. Only if you fulfill some very clear and harsh conditions you will get his 'love'.[/b]

The ultimate punishment in the lakes of fire. The condition to avoid the eternal punishment is to worship him. If you don't, then he doesn't love you and send you to suffer for eternity. That's a very strong condition.

Sin is what is going to be punished...

Romans 6:23

English Standard Version (ESV)

23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.


If you are in sin and do not accept God's propitiation for sin, then yes you will die as the wages for sin are death.


1 John 4:10

English Standard Version (ESV)

10 In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Originally posted by yoctobyte
Sin is what is going to be punished...

Okay, then, there is no unconditional 'love' from god. It's condition is that you are not in sin.

Thank you for clearing that up. The question has been answered.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Okay, then, there is no unconditional 'love' from god. It's condition is that you are not in sin.

Thank you for clearing that up. The question has been answered.

Here's an example in layman's terms.

You are on a train that is traveling through a dangerous country. To the left you have starving ferocious animals waiting to take a bite out of you, to the right you have other dangers... cliffs, rivers with creatures, etc., it is clear to you that if you get off the train, you will not live very long.

Affirming what you believe about leaving the train, the engineer comes on the radio and says, do not leave the train, as long as you are on the train you will be safe.

Now what do you do? Are you going to get off the train in spite of knowing better and having been told by the engineer, and die thinking maybe you can live? Or will you stay on and live?

You see the choice is entirely up to you. The engineer does not care about you any less because you chose to get off but is saddened by it. You had all the foreknowledge of the consequences of your actions, and made some choice.

God is the same way. Sin will be punished, for the wages thereof is death. Unless you accept Jesus as the propitiation for your sins, you will likewise die.


The jist of this is we do not want to accept the consequenses of our own actions, we want to blame someone else for the, in the case we want to blame God.

FabianFnas, don't you want to live?

Originally posted by yoctobyte
Here's an example in layman's terms.

You are on a train that is traveling through a dangerous country. To the left you have starving ferocious animals waiting to take a bite out of you, to the right you have other dangers... cliffs, rivers with creatures, etc., it is clear to you that if you get off the train, you will not live very long.

Affirming ...[text shortened]... e someone else for the, in the case we want to blame God.

FabianFnas, don't you want to live?

This is about gods unconditional love or gods conditional love. I don't see the relevance in your answer.

How do you define the word "unconditional". I use it in the sense "without conditions". Don't you?
Do you get gods love with a condition (to be free of sin) or without a condition (sin doesn't matter).

I think that we use the word in different ways. Christians tend to redefine a word when it is hard to answer questions. That there is a religious "uncondition" and another unreligious "uncondition".

Let's stick to the topic.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
This is about gods unconditional love or gods conditional love. I don't see the relevance in your answer.

How do you define the word "unconditional". I use it in the sense "without conditions". Don't you?
Do you get gods love with a condition (to be free of sin) or without a condition (sin doesn't matter).

I think that we use the word in different ...[text shortened]... is a religious "uncondition" and another unreligious "uncondition".

Let's stick to the topic.

You are not really interested in the topic, you are just interested in criticizing and do it consistently.

God's love is unconditional, plain and simple. It does not rely on anything we do or not do.

How do you define the word "unconditional". I use it in the sense "without conditions". Don't you?

Yes, absolutely.

Originally posted by yoctobyte
John 3:16

[b]English Standard Version (ESV)

16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.


Romans 5:8

English Standard Version (ESV)

8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.


Not sure what you folks are looking for, but if this does not express unconditional love, I don't know what will.[/b]

In what way do you feel that these verse are an expression of Gods unconditional love?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
In what way do you feel that these verse are an expression of Gods unconditional love?

I think the expression of God's love is evident in both of these scriptures and are therefore linked, so to speak. Knowing that the sin nature of man would have to be redeemed, God sent his son to die (perfect sacrifice) in our place so we would not have to, we merely accept what was done on the cross and his sacrafice.

I don't know about you but I would have a hard time dying for someone that was nasty to me, or better yet someone who persecuted me physically and emotionally... yet that is just what God did through the son. The death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus was for us, so we could now again be in communion with God once again. If that is not love, don't know what is.